Beginners Guide to Water Treatment (plus links to more advanced water treatment in post #1)

[strange-steve]

At lower than 5.2 pH enzyme activity is adversely affected, particularly alpha amylase, so conversion efficiency might be down and wort fermentability will be higher. This is obviously a bigger problem if you use a lot of adjuncts or malts with low diastatic power (like munich malt). But other than this, I'm not sure what problems it can cause. I think a little low is better than a little high, but I usually aim for about 5.4 which is a good mid point.

 

[private4587]

Hi Steve i am about to attempt a Sam Adams Boston Lager Clone, and was hoping if you would look over this. My water at this time has an Alkilinity of 42ppm and calcium of 35ppm. in the recipe from Beersmith it is down as a American Pale ale Style. Would i be correct in saying that i need to add .05ml/l of Latic Acid to both my mash and sparge water. Thanks and happy new year

 

[svenito]

Thanks for the post, given me the balls to give water treatment a go. Phosphoric arriving for next batch. Have to knock down 317ppm alkalinity [emoji14]

Wish me luck :)

 

[strange-steve]

Hi Steve i am about to attempt a Sam Adams Boston Lager Clone, and was hoping if you would look over this. My water at this time has an Alkilinity of 42ppm and calcium of 35ppm. in the recipe from Beersmith it is down as a American Pale ale Style. Would i be correct in saying that i need to add .05ml/l of Latic Acid to both my mash and sparge water. Thanks and happy new year

Yeah that should sort out your mash pH. Regarding calcium, I would take it up to about 60ppm with a small calcium chloride addition.

 

[strange-steve]

Thanks for the post, given me the balls to give water treatment a go. Phosphoric arriving for next batch. Have to knock down 317ppm alkalinity [emoji14]

Wish me luck :)

Yikes, with alkalinity like that I'd definitely be looking at dilution before acidifying, although I'm not sure what the taste threshold for phosphate is.

 

[private4587]

Yeah that should sort out your mash pH. Regarding calcium, I would take it up to about 60ppm with a small calcium chloride addition.

Tanks Steve does 1.2g in Mash and 1.1g in sparge sound about right?

 

[strange-steve]

Tanks Steve does 1.2g in Mash and 1.1g in sparge sound about right?

Yep, sounds good to me :thumb:

 

[svenito]

Yikes, with alkalinity like that I'd definitely be looking at dilution before acidifying, although I'm not sure what the taste threshold for phosphate is.

Maybe I'll just drop it a little bit and get myself some bottled water for next time.

 

[jeg3]

I've just had my first go at this, great simple guide.

My alkalinity was 240ppm and it's conditioning in the king keg now.

Mash efficiency was up, and it tastes great, so thumbs up from me

 

[strange-steve]

Maybe I'll just drop it a little bit and get myself some bottled water for next time.

If you mixed your tap water 50:50 with a Tesco Ashbeck it would (almost) half the alkalinity to about 160 or so which is more manageable.

 

[svenito]

If you mixed your tap water 50:50 with a Tesco Ashbeck it would (almost) half the alkalinity to about 160 or so which is more manageable.

Yeah, that was my plan initially. But then sulphates drop quite low. Adding any sulphate slats in raise other minerals too high.

Ah well, focus on RA first then and get myself some ashbeck

EDIT: Actually the mash for what I have planned would hit 110ppm RA without acid with a 50/50 blend of waters, so only need 3ml of phosphoric to bring it down to 34

seem like a reasonable amount?

 

[MagnusTS]

Finally got the required values for my water.
Yorkshire Water were very helpful and sent a detailed report with everything I need except alkalinity, and I bought a Salifert kit to measure that.

Here are the magic numbers:
Alkalinity 77 ppm
Calcium 45.6 mg/l
Chloride 22.6 mg/l
Sulphate 67.7 mg/l

Hi Steve, me again.
Thanks for all the help with this topic.

I'm now brewing some dark ales. I see that alkalinity of ~120ppm would be good for a stout, so I'd need to increase my alkalinity by 60ppm to get from 77 to 137ppm. So nice and simple addition of 0.1g/L Sodium Bicarb to the mash water (but not to the sparge water). Does that sound right to you with my water stats above?

I'm also planning a porter. What alkalinity would you aim for with a porter?

What kind of sulphate to chloride ratios would you aim for for these 2 beer styles?

Thanks!

 

[Thumper]

Finally got myself a copy of my water report!

Alkalinity 267mg HCO3

Calcium 135mg

Sulphate 63mg

All mean values.

Right! Now I have a basis for actually working out what I need to put in. Summer's coming, I finally have my BIAB equipment, and I want to make some hoppy golden ales :lol:

 

[dan125]

Confusing myself over water treatment again.
Does anyone know - if I add enough AMS to reduce alkalinity below zero, does it continue to increase the sulphate & chloride in the same way once i'm into the negatives numbers?

Is it even possible, in practise, to have a negative alkalinity?

I went down to -5 alkalinity yesterday and used 2% acidulated malt, but the mash pH was still too high

 

[strange-steve]

Yeah, that was my plan initially. But then sulphates drop quite low. Adding any sulphate slats in raise other minerals too high.

Ah well, focus on RA first then and get myself some ashbeck

EDIT: Actually the mash for what I have planned would hit 110ppm RA without acid with a 50/50 blend of waters, so only need 3ml of phosphoric to bring it down to 34

seem like a reasonable amount?

You say that adding sulphates causes other minerals to be too high, what do you mean by that? Presumably you'll be using gypsum to increase the sulphate, which means you'll be adding calcium also, which should be fine in amounts up to 250-300 ppm.

 

[svenito]

You say that adding sulphates causes other minerals to be too high, what do you mean by that? Presumably you'll be using gypsum to increase the sulphate, which means you'll be adding calcium also, which should be fine in amounts up to 250-300 ppm.

By adding any of the sulphates I always get either the sodium or calcium too high for the target sulphates.

I've done the brew now and aimed for a balanced profile and managed to get a nice level according to the calculations. Added gypsum and calcium chloride plus a some phosphoric to the mash
Thanks for giving me the confidence to give it a try. Brew is still fermenting, so time will tell how good/bad it turns out.

Any suggestions for a profile for wheat beers btw?

 

[strange-steve]

I'm now brewing some dark ales. I see that alkalinity of ~120ppm would be good for a stout, so I'd need to increase my alkalinity by 60ppm to get from 77 to 137ppm. So nice and simple addition of 0.1g/L Sodium Bicarb to the mash water (but not to the sparge water). Does that sound right to you with my water stats above?

Yeah sounds about right, though if you have access to a pH meter it's worth checking about 15 mins into the mash.

I'm also planning a porter. What alkalinity would you aim for with a porter?

It's difficult to tell, because the relationship between colour and mash pH isn't terribly accurate. One of the reasons being that crystal malts are actually more acidic than roasted malts, so technically you could brew a beer with no roasted malts but a ton of crystal which would have a mash pH lower than a really dark dry stout with no crystal malt. So a bit of trial and error is required, which is where the pH meter comes in handy. I would advise maybe around 90-100 ppm alkalinity as a starting point though.

What kind of sulphate to chloride ratios would you aim for for these 2 beer styles?

That's entirely dependant on what qualities you want from the beers. They generally aren't hoppy styles but you may still want to favour the sulphate to add a dryness to an export or dry stout. If you want something a little sweeter or fuller then more chloride. Personally I go for somewhere around 0.8 for darker beers.

 

[strange-steve]

@svenito what do you mean by too high?

Re. wheat beers, I like a rich malt flavour in a hefeweizen, so I go for plenty of chloride and low sulphate.

 

[Thumper]

By adding any of the sulphates I always get either the sodium or calcium too high for the target sulphates.

I've done the brew now and aimed for a balanced profile and managed to get a nice level according to the calculations. Added gypsum and calcium chloride plus a some phosphoric to the mash
Thanks for giving me the confidence to give it a try. Brew is still fermenting, so time will tell how good/bad it turns out.

Any suggestions for a profile for wheat beers btw?

I know some people use Epsom salts (magnesium sulphate) to introduce sulphate without increasing calcium. I've bought myself some, as my calcium is already high. You can get it in Boots, or any old pharmacy. Just make sure it's pure magnesium sulphate.

 

[strange-steve]

Finally got myself a copy of my water report!

Alkalinity 267mg HCO3

Calcium 135mg

Sulphate 63mg

All mean values.

Right! Now I have a basis for actually working out what I need to put in. Summer's coming, I finally have my BIAB equipment, and I want to make some hoppy golden ales :lol:

Ok, convert the HCO3 to CaCO3 by dividing by 1.22 which gives you an alkalinity of 219 ppm as CaCO3. For a hoppy pale ale, get the alkalinity below 35 ppm and add a little gypsum, maybe 0.2g/L.