Beginners Guide to Water Treatment (plus links to more advanced water treatment in post #1)

[bobukbrewer]

Steve - I just googled for the conversion and 113 x 0.6 is the figure - your post confuses me further because you say it is correct and ask how I get the figure ?

 

[strange-steve]

Steve - I just googled for the conversion and 113 x 0.6 is the figure - your post confuses me further because you say it is correct and ask how I get the figure ?

Ok, apologies if I wasn't very clear. The molecular weight calculations and conversion factor you posted is correct, but it doesn't apply in this case. That formula will convert from alkalinity as CO3 to alkalinity as CaCO3, but that isn't what you need to do.

The 113ppm value you have is a measurement of hardness which isn't the same as alkalinity and can't be used to convert to an alkalinity value; it's really not of much use for our purposes. The only way to really know what your alkalinity is, is to test it yourself with the KH kit.

Part of the reason water treatment is confusing is due to the fact that alkalinity and hardness can be measured in the same units, ie. ppm as CaCO3, but those two values are not interchangeable, despite being the same unit of measurement. Hardness is essentially a measure of how much calcium and magnesium is in the water (both good for brewing) whereas alkalinity is a measure of the buffering capacity of the water, basically how resistant it is to a change in pH (lower generally better for brewing). Hope that is a little clearer.

 

[private4587]

Sorry to be a pain Steve but when you say 2% acid malt is this 2% of total grain bill? thanks for your patience

 

[private4587]

Sorry for another silly question Steve, but when using RO water do you still add camden tablet to get rid of Chlorine nasties?

 

[mabrungard]

Sorry for another silly question Steve, but when using RO water do you still add camden tablet to get rid of Chlorine nasties?

RO membranes are degraded and destroyed by chlorine compounds and RO systems typically include an activated carbon filter to remove those compounds prior to sending it to the membrane. So there is no need to treat RO water with Campden.

 

[strange-steve]

Sorry to be a pain Steve but when you say 2% acid malt is this 2% of total grain bill? thanks for your patience

Yes 2% of the grain bill, so a 5kg grist for example would have 100g of acid malt.

Also, I recommend downloading Bru'n Water (created by mabrungard who answered your chlorine question above). It takes a little getting used to initially, but well worth the effort. And if you're not sure about AJ Delange's minimalist approach to water treatment, then Bru'n Water also has some recommended profiles for various beer styles which you can build from your RO water, which might be a better starting point for you.

 

[BeerCat]

Hi Steve. Could do with some help please. PLanning on brewing three beers next weekend at a friends using Aldi everyday essentials spring water. An IPA, Kolsch and an Adnams broadside clone. The blurb on the bottle;

Typical values mg/litre
Calcium 38
Magnesium 12
Sodium 8
Potassium 25
Chloride 12
Sulphate 14
Nitrate 5

Thanks.

 

[bobukbrewer]

Alkalinity of water may be due to the presence of one or more of a number of ions. These include hydroxides, carbonates and bicarbonates.

Bicarbonates are the most common sources of alkalinity.

The alkalinity of water may be defined as its capacity to neutralize acid. Alkali substances in water include hydroxides or bases.

Alkalinity, bacicity (loosely), is the name given to the quantitative capacity of an aqueous solution to neutralize an acid.[1] Bacicity is measured using the PH scale.

Alkalinity is related to the pH of a solution (its basicity), but measures a different property. Roughly, the pH of a solution is a measure of how "strong" the bases are in a solution, whereas the alkalinity measures the "amount" of chemical bases: a "refined" example would be the strong base KOH-. Another good example is a buffer solution, which can have many available bases (high alkalinity) despite having only a moderate pH level.

In the natural environment carbonate alkalinity tends to make up most of the total alkalinity due to the common occurrence and dissolution of carbonate rocks and presence of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere.

Commercially, as in the swimming pool industry, alkalinity might also be given in parts per million of equivalent calcium carbonate (ppm CaCO3).

Alkalinity (as calcium carbonate) 139

so I googled - and I am more confused - HELP!

 

[strange-steve]

@BeerCat
For the kolsch you want soft water with a little chloride to let the malt flavours shine, so an addition of 0.1g/L will take the calcium up to 65ppm and the chloride up to 60ppm.

For the broadside I'd probably go for a fairly balanced profile, something like 0.15g/L each of calcium chloride and gypsum which will give you:
114ppm calcium
84ppm chloride
98ppm sulphate

For the IPA, maybe 0.1g/L calcium chloride and 0.35g/L gypsum. That'll give you:
146ppm calcium
60ppm chloride
209ppm sulphate

That'll sort out your mineral profiles, but do you have alkalinity or bicarbonate values for that water?

 

[strange-steve]

@bobukbrewer
I'm trying to help but your getting bogged down in unnecessary details, all you need to know right now is the alkalinity. When you have that value I can give you a bit more direction. Now you've said there your alkalinity is 139, where did you get that figure from?

 

[BeerCat]

@BeerCat
For the kolsch you want soft water with a little chloride to let the malt flavours shine, so an addition of 0.1g/L will take the calcium up to 65ppm and the chloride up to 60ppm.

For the broadside I'd probably go for a fairly balanced profile, something like 0.15g/L each of calcium chloride and gypsum which will give you:
114ppm calcium
84ppm chloride
98ppm sulphate

For the IPA, maybe 0.1g/L calcium chloride and 0.35g/L gypsum. That'll give you:
146ppm calcium
60ppm chloride
209ppm sulphate

That'll sort out your mineral profiles, but do you have alkalinity or bicarbonate values for that water?

Unfortunately that was all the info on the bottle. I am going to contact them tomorrow and see if i can find out. Thanks Steve, i am finding it easy with RO but a little trickier working this one out.

I know its not alkalinity but i forgot to add the PH is 7.8

 

[bobukbrewer]

my water company website - it is the only measure of alkalinity on there.

 

[strange-steve]

my water company website - it is the only measure of alkalinity on there.

Ok now we're getting somewhere, that's the value you need. Your water isn't too bad for bitters actually, just needs a drop of acid to get the alkalinity down to about 35 or so and maybe a touch of gypsum wouldn't hurt either.

Try something like 0.5ml of CRS per litre of water and 0.1g of gypsum per litre. That'll give you a good mash pH and should enhance the hops a bit.

 

[MyQul]

Hi Steve.

I'm good to go with alkalinity,how to measure it and how to decrease it if necessary. But I was wondering is their a basic rule of thumb I can use for a salts addition (e.g. half a teaspoon of gypsum in the mash or something like that) just to try it out. Or do I really need to measure my (calcium?) water more and purchase more salifert kits? If it helps any, I mostly make bitters/pale ales/pale (pseudo) lagers

 

[bobukbrewer]

Steve - I gave this alkalinity figure in post 331 - I think....

 

[bobukbrewer]

water treatment as recommended rec min rec max
as tested will result in:-
pH 6.59 6.59
Alkalinity as CaCO3 124 60 0 50
Carbonates as CO3 74.4
Nitrate 19.4 0 50
Chloride as Cl 82 228 150 300
Sulphate as SO4 129.01 417 250 400
Total Hardness 160
Calcium as Ca 52 177 180 220
Magnesium as Mg 7.2 11 0 50




suggested treatment
AMS 8.75 ml per 25 litres of water used
DWB 17.25 gm per 25 litres of beer to be made


I cannot understand why alkalinity and sulphate and calcium are not in recommended range

I paid for a water analysis results as above

 

[strange-steve]

Unfortunately that was all the info on the bottle. I am going to contact them tomorrow and see if i can find out.

Do you have an alkalinity test kit?

 

[strange-steve]

Hi Steve.

I'm good to go with alkalinity,how to measure it and how to decrease it if necessary. But I was wondering is their a basic rule of thumb I can use for a salts addition (e.g. half a teaspoon of gypsum in the mash or something like that) just to try it out. Or do I really need to measure my (calcium?) water more and purchase more salifert kits? If it helps any, I mostly make bitters/pale ales/pale (pseudo) lagers

There isn't really a rule of thumb because it depends on what's in there already. Most water companies can tell you what your calcium is if you contact them or look on their website. Calcium is usually (but not always) around 0.4 x alkalinity ppm as CaCO3 if you want to wing it.

 

[strange-steve]

I paid for a water analysis results as above

The formatting has rendered that rather difficult to read, but if I'm reading it correctly your untreated tap water has the following composition:

Alkalinity as CaCO3 - 124ppm
Chloride - 82ppm
Sulphate - 129ppm
Calcium - 52ppm

Is that correct?

 

[MyQul]

There isn't really a rule of thumb because it depends on what's in there already. Most water companies can tell you what your calcium is if you contact them or look on their website. Calcium is usually (but not always) around 0.4 x alkalinity ppm as CaCO3 if you want to wing it.

Thanks steve. I kind of thought as much about needing to test it really. But your "winging it" (around 0.4 x alkalinity ppm as CaCO3) is the kind of rule of thumb I'm after. By, alkalinity ppm as CaCO3, do you mean the figure I get when I test the alkalinity of my water with my Salifert testing kit (and is this figure that I x 0.4, before or after I've acidifed my water?)