Anybody able to achieve ~80% mash efficiency with BIAB?

[Leard]

I seem to consistently achieve 70-75% efficiency with my BIAB method. I'd like to achieve a higher efficiency of 80%, which I know people have achieved with BIAB. Just looking for tips on how to achieve it.

• I double grind my grains
• I check pH and try to achieve 5.2 by adding a touch of lactic acid
• I stir every 15 minutes, while also using this as an opportunity to check the temperature and add some heat if necessary. I'm generally able to see only a 2-3 drop in temperature for the entire 60-90 minute mash
• Finally, I place the grain bag in a big colander over a bucket and squeeze the **** out of it. Then pour that wort back into the boil

I've wondered if a sparge step could help? Just pouring a litre or two of sparge water over the open bag of grains while it sits in a separate bucket.

Any thoughts?

 

[Cwrw666]

Sparging makes a huge difference. I do a dunk sparge - so after the mash I hoist the grain bag up and drain it into the boiler. Then I lower it into the FV ill be using which contains about a gallon of hot water. Open the bag, give it a good stir, then hoist the bag out and let it drain. Tip the liquid into the boiler.
Last time I measured it I was getting 83% efficiency .

 

[dmtaylor]

I averaged 92% for a couple of years with BIAB. This includes a sparge by setting the bag in a colander then pouring half the water over the top of the bag after the initial mash. You'll never hit 90% efficiency without a sparge. But 80%, sure. How to get there:

• Double crushing the grains might not be good enough. You need to mill finely. A poor crush twice is not as good as one fine crush. You should see quite a lot of flour, with every kernel broken into about 6-7 pieces (yes, you should examine individual kernels).
• pH of 5.2 is too low. Aim for 5.4-5.5 instead.
• With a fine crush, stir well once but then just leave it alone. Stirring only helps a poor crush. With a good crush, no need to keep stirring.
• Consider a rinse with hot water instead of or in addition to squeezing the hell. And not just a litre or two. How about AT LEAST 8-10 litres. If you don't like pouring hot water, do a dunk sparge as @Cwrw666 suggests, that works equally well.

 

[Robin54]

Sparging makes a huge difference. I do a dunk sparge - so after the mash I hoist the grain bag up and drain it into the boiler. Then I lower it into the FV ill be using which contains about a gallon of hot water. Open the bag, give it a good stir, then hoist the bag out and let it drain. Tip the liquid into the boiler.
Last time I measured it I was getting 83% efficiency .

Exactly what I do. How much sparge water I use is dependant on the size of the grain bill, though i do it by eye balling the volume. Ive done so many BIABs now I can judge volumes and boil offs by eye.

 

[foxy]

I seem to consistently achieve 70-75% efficiency with my BIAB method. I'd like to achieve a higher efficiency of 80%, which I know people have achieved with BIAB. Just looking for tips on how to achieve it.

• I double grind my grains
• I check pH and try to achieve 5.2 by adding a touch of lactic acid
• I stir every 15 minutes, while also using this as an opportunity to check the temperature and add some heat if necessary. I'm generally able to see only a 2-3 drop in temperature for the entire 60-90 minute mash
• Finally, I place the grain bag in a big colander over a bucket and squeeze the **** out of it. Then pour that wort back into the boil

I've wondered if a sparge step could help? Just pouring a litre or two of sparge water over the open bag of grains while it sits in a separate bucket.

Any thoughts?

Can you explain why you want a higher efficiency?

 

[phildo79]

Can you explain why you want a higher efficiency?

Probably to save money on ingredients. But then it's not like grains cost a lot per recipe any way. Does seem like an extra amount of faff for minimal savings.

Could be wrong though and it's for different reasons. I work off the default 72% and have recently noticed that I have been hitting my targets pretty much bang on.

 

[Tanglefoot]

I BIAB no sparge with typical efficiency of just under 70%, I like a simple life and would rather just up my grain bill a little.
Though I can see why people like to optimise how their system works, from a hobbyist perspective.

 

[foxy]

Probably to save money on ingredients. But then it's not like grains cost a lot per recipe any way. Does seem like an extra amount of faff for minimal savings.

Could be wrong though and it's for different reasons. I work off the default 72% and have recently noticed that I have been hitting my targets pretty much bang on.

If efficiency led to an improvement in the end product then I would be all for getting the best efficiency on my set up. 63-64 % I am happy with, no sparge, which arguably produces a better cleaner tasting beer.
Too much emphasis on efficiency, as if we were commercial breweries getting the best bang for their buck.

 

[Cwrw666]

Personally I like getting good efficiency from my brewing. Number 1 reason is that I can get 7 and sometimes 8 brews from a sack of malt whereas before I was only getting 6. Obviously this reduces the frequency of getting a delivery which can only be a good thing - not easy where I live. Must be the same for people who actually work for a living as well.

 

[LeeH]

At 40 quid a sack I see no issues chasing efficiency!

 

[Brewnaldo]

Efficiency can never be a bad thing, as long as its balanced with time/effort as well as yield from grains, I suppose.

Consistency is more important. I probably could have filled an extra 5 litre FV yesterday and had a wee bonus brew, but I wasn't expecting to yield like 28 or so litres of 1.050 wort so wasnt ready for it. Knowledge of efficiency and repetition is the real key factor IMO

 

[Sandimas]

I must be doing something wrong, only get 68% with a dunk sparge.

It jumped to 74% when I changed grain supplier, I guess the crush made a difference. So you may get better efficiency by changing your grain crush rather than your mash technique.

 

[Cwrw666]

I must be doing something wrong, only get 68% with a dunk sparge.

It jumped to 74% when I changed grain supplier, I guess the crush made a difference. So you may get better efficiency by changing your grain crush rather than your mash technique.

I grind my own, lot of flour in it. Even with a sparge I found much lower efficiency with pre crushed grain. Mind you, draining the bag is more difficult as the bag clogs up quite badly. Swings and roundabouts I suppose.

 

[phildo79]

I must be doing something wrong, only get 68% with a dunk sparge.

It jumped to 74% when I changed grain supplier, I guess the crush made a difference. So you may get better efficiency by changing your grain crush rather than your mash technique.

Hmmm, now that you mention it, I was always shooting a few points under my pre boil gravity when I got my bespoke AG kits from Get 'er Brewed. Now that I have switched to CML, I am getting a lot more accuracy.

 

[ssashton]

How do you measure efficiency?

I use BIAB. I hang it from hooks above the kettle. The bag with a metal top ring helps a lot.

Mash is 15L then I spare with 5L fresh water. I just slowly sprinkle from the electric kettle at about 70-80c.

Typical ~5kg of grain absorbs about 3.5l of water.

OG is usually a few points below recipie by the time I top up to 20L.

 

[BobShandy]

Would using a packet of Glucoamylase suit you? or would it make the wort too dry?

BTW, what sort of price would a home grinder cost? I have pre-crushed malted barley but I didn't get finely crushed as I should have.

 

[foxy]

How do you measure efficiency?

I use BIAB. I hang it from hooks above the kettle. The bag with a metal top ring helps a lot.

Mash is 15L then I spare with 5L fresh water. I just slowly sprinkle from the electric kettle at about 70-80c.

Typical ~5kg of grain absorbs about 3.5l of water.

OG is usually a few points below recipie by the time I top up to 20L.

View attachment 81085

Easiest way to explain is in calculators at the top of the page. The OP questioned mash efficiency whereas he was actually questioning brew house (system efficiency) what the OP is getting at 70 to 75% is average for what most home brewers will get.
Low pH, grain crush and consistent mash temperature suitable to the beer you are brewing to convert the starch.
https://www.brewersfriend.com/brewhouse-efficiency/

 

[peebee]

@foxy has broached the subject of there being more than one "efficiency". So, I'm not easily going to get away with this:

Here's one brew I've got on tap currently (they are snippets from "Beersmith" which excels at giving you loads of irrelevant statistics to worry yourself into a hopeless quivering angst soaked splot):

Here's another, the following brew:

The last one is a bit of a cheat 'cos this one was mashed at 70°C! Warning: You don't expect high fermentation attenuation mashing at those temperatures!

But the "Brewhouse (BH) Efficiency" or "System Efficiency" was 71.3% and 70% respectively. (Where the hell does it go).

But is getting +80% mash efficiency so great? The numbers are only based on a theoretical assumption of what can be expected. Based on figures gained by the maltsters who are not going to show their product in a bad light. Some breweries expect mash efficiencies greater than 100%! Narnia springs to mind. And we need high efficiencies to do what? Make more alcohol out of less ingredients so we can get pissed quicker?

What happened to flavour? Surely for that a low efficiency is better to gain more flavour from more ingredient?


Okay, I have to come clean. I actually brew in a GF, not a floppy bag. I never got over discovering these "one-pot" systems need a second pot to heat the sparge water. Flippin' momentous con! So, I always brew "full-boil-length-mash" or "no sparge" ... imitation "BIAB" ... "Brew-in-an-expensive-perforated-baked-bean-can" if you like. The "recirculating mash" (RIMS) is an advantage but can easily be copied with a simple BIAB setup.

[EDIT: Mixed up my mashing temperatures ... it was 70°C, not 80°C (that's for low-alcohol brewing), like so:

]

 

[foxy]

But is getting +80% mash efficiency so great? The numbers are only based on a theoretical assumption of what can be expected. Based on figures gained by the maltsters who are not going to show their product in a bad light. Some breweries expect mash efficiencies greater than 100%! Narnia springs to mind. And we need high efficiencies to do what? Make more alcohol out of less ingredients so we can get ****** quicker?

What happened to flavour? Surely for that a low efficiency is better to gain more flavour from more ingredient?


]

I agree, I think people who may be happy with the efficiency they get, (I would be delighted with the OP's efficiency of 70-75% with no sparge.) But for some reason they get drawn into a willy waving competition. Concentrate on the end result, don't look at what someone else's efficiency is. If economics plays a part then look at the Parti-Gyle. Even Shakespeare knew what first, second, and third runnings were.

 

[Cwrw666]

I used one of the calculators to find out mine. But I already knew it was high because for any given recipe I have to significantly reduce the pale malt quantity to end up at the predicted gravity.
I've never noticed any loss of flavour either.