Will you drink in Wetherspoons when pubs re-open?

[An Ankoù]

Because he is a proponent of Brexit then he is hypocritical to take advantage of government furlough scheme? I'm not sure I follow?

I think you choose not to follow. Nobody suggested his hypocrisy was due to his being on the Brexit wing of the debate, rather that he was so vocal in wanting to put Britain first that he even suggested getting rid of "foreign" beers and wines in his pubs. Yet when it comes to the crunch he's the first to start laying off staff. On reflection perhaps there is an element of consistency as many of his staff were not British" were they? But I don't really think that's his first consideration, in fact. So, forget about Brexit, it's his shouting loudly for Britain, British values, British jobs, British beer, British Prosecco that doesn't lie will with his unwillingness to tighten his belt a little when push comes to shove. Of course nobody expects a business to keep on a full workforce when there's no business to be done. It's the way of it, not the fact of it.

 

[MickDundee]

The bottom line is you pay your money and take your choice. I mentioned earlier it is the quality of the beer more than any other reason I avoid them when I can. We go to a Green King pub around once a month as it has a very good carvery and the beer is always tip top now GK get a very bad press on here and a lot of beer related forums but I can't fault this place and no one tries to preach any political ideology to me. I would rather give my money to this pub, along with another pub we go to, as these are the sort of pubs I still want to use in the future. Beer is a slight obsession with me and will be the main criteria in looking for a pub and my experience with most wetherspoons pubs would normally lead me elsewhere.

+1 for Greene King pubs (or rather Belhaven as they are usually branded up here). 2 of our usual pubs are GK owned and I know a lot of people who have worked for them before (including myself for 4 weeks over Christmas when I was 18) and they seem to be good employers.

One is quite a trendy place but has Punk IPA on tap and Gamma Ray in cans, and their default lager is now West Brewery lager which is much nicer than the standard macro stuff. The other is more of a traditional pub with at least 4 cask ales on. We also get 25% off because one of my mates is a designated “Friends and Family” of a friend of his who is manager at our local GK “gastropub” so we open a tab whilst we are there.

 

[Brew_DD2]

Yep. The objections to the owner and his shady practices are a secondary issue to the dreadfully kept cask beer and grim atmosphere.

A £2 pint is only good value if it tastes good.

 

[Guybrush Threepwood]

I think you choose not to follow. Nobody suggested his hypocrisy was due to his being on the Brexit wing of the debate, rather that he was so vocal in wanting to put Britain first that he even suggested getting rid of "foreign" beers and wines in his pubs. Yet when it comes to the crunch he's the first to start laying off staff. On reflection perhaps there is an element of consistency as many of his staff were not British" were they? But I don't really think that's his first consideration, in fact. So, forget about Brexit, it's his shouting loudly for Britain, British values, British jobs, British beer, British Prosecco that doesn't lie will with his unwillingness to tighten his belt a little when push comes to shove. Of course nobody expects a business to keep on a full workforce when there's no business to be done. It's the way of it, not the fact of it.

You suggested the hypocrisy

Martin has been such an ardent campaigner for Leave and disseminator of Brexit propaganda that we can't help wondering whether that isn't the ripe whiff of hypocrisy rising from his festering wellies.

Also, where he chooses to source his stock has nothing to do with his furlough of staff. It is two completely different subjects. To the best of my knowledge he hasnt been laying them off but has been using furlough scheme to keep them?

 

[Chippy_Tea]

then the minute folk in Britain needed to pull together he dumped them all on the state so it didn't hurt his own back pocket.

Or to put it another way he did what thousands of businesses did and put his staff on the government scheme hopefully so they have a job to come back to in several months when pubs are allowed to open and customers have confidence in going back into them, the latter is going to take a long time.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I think you are conflating two separate points here. What has backing Brexit and putting your staff on furlough through a government scheme have to do with each other? Plenty of anti Brexit company owners will have used the same scheme? Or because he backed Brexit he has no moral right to furlough?

Spot on Guybrush Threepwood

 

[Chippy_Tea]

We see this again in his claim that the virus doesn't spread in pubs!

As you haven't posted any quotes by him i will play devils advocate maybe he meant "The virus doesn't spread in pubs any more than it does in any other business"

 

[Crappyfish]

Here's the place to ask this question.... I heard Weatherspoon sell beer close to its use by date anyone know if its true or just a mate being wrong again

 

[An Ankoù]

As you haven't posted any quotes by him i will play devils advocate maybe he meant "The virus doesn't spread in pubs any more than it does in any other business"

It was widely reported at the time. Here's the article from the Indi, but the other papers reported the same thing at the time. Now I think back to those heady days, didn't he also suggest his staff (and I supposed he meant casual or defective contract staff who couldn't benefit from the furlough scheme) should go and work for Tesco as they were taking on staff (to sell the beer he wasn't selling, I understood).
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...lose-piers-morgan-boris-johnson-a9413971.html

Also, where he chooses to source his stock has nothing to do with his furlough of staff. It is two completely different subjects. To the best of my knowledge he hasnt been laying them off but has been using furlough scheme to keep them?

Again you choose to resort to smoke and mirrors, but it won't wash. Only you seem to think that where he sources his stock and furloughing staff are connected. The sourcing was an example of his British Firstness and he didn't want to furlough his staff until public opinion, demonstrations and complaints forced him into that scheme. He didn;t want to pay them at all. Read on. Not a very pleasant chappy in My opinion. Of course, I'm sure his mummy loves him and I suspect you do too.

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/c...aHmxMRxOCvBw3Q1FNik3qAkH0CgTV6N-cqtdK-SNzaB6r
No he didn't Chippy. Not until he was forced to. See above.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

It was widely reported at the time. Here's the article from the Indi, but the other papers reported the same thing at the time.

I cannot read it as it wants me to subscribe.

 

[Guybrush Threepwood]

It was widely reported at the time. Here's the article from the Indi, but the other papers reported the same thing at the time. Now I think back to those heady days, didn't he also suggest his staff (and I supposed he meant casual or defective contract staff who couldn't benefit from the furlough scheme) should go and work for Tesco as they were taking on staff (to sell the beer he wasn't selling, I understood).
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...lose-piers-morgan-boris-johnson-a9413971.html



Again you choose to resort to smoke and mirrors, but it won't wash. Only you seem to think that where he sources his stock and furloughing staff are connected. The sourcing was an example of his British Firstness and he didn't want to furlough his staff until public opinion, demonstrations and complaints forced him into that scheme. He didn;t want to pay them at all. Read on. Not a very pleasant chappy in My opinion. Of course, I'm sure his mummy loves him and I suspect you do too.

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/c...aHmxMRxOCvBw3Q1FNik3qAkH0CgTV6N-cqtdK-SNzaB6r
No he didn't Chippy. Not until he was forced to. See above.

No smoke and mirrors.

You started waffling on about "britishness sourcing" and "british firsting" and tried to conflate it to laying off staff. I pointed out that these things are completely unrelated. He always wanted to furlough is staff, that is the whole point which you have seemed to have missed completely while riding around on your high horse. Of course he didnt want to pay staff if they were closed and not working.

With regards the Tesco situation, he said that he was having no issue to his staff working for other firms if he could not pay or furlough them and he would be willing to bring them back.

Honestly, we are going round in circles here. You make wild assertions that make no sense, I point that out, you then claim I made your crazy assertions, and round and round we go.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

British Firstness and he didn't want to furlough his staff until public opinion, demonstrations and complaints forced him into that scheme. He didn;t want to pay them at all.

He wouldn't be paying them the government would paying them the extra 20% to top pay up to 100% was optional.

 

[An Ankoù]

He wouldn't be paying them the government would paying them the extra 20% to top pay up to 100% was optional.

Indeed. But he didn't even want to enter the scheme until he had some money up front. He only changed his stance because he was shamed into it. Or rather, realised he'd lose his customer base. A but late for that I think.

 

[An Ankoù]

No smoke and mirrors.

You started waffling on about "britishness sourcing" and "british firsting" and tried to conflate it to laying off staff. I pointed out that these things are completely unrelated. He always wanted to furlough is staff, that is the whole point which you have seemed to have missed completely while riding around on your high horse. Of course he didnt want to pay staff if they were closed and not working.

With regards the Tesco situation, he said that he was having no issue to his staff working for other firms if he could not pay or furlough them and he would be willing to bring them back.

Honestly, we are going round in circles here. You make wild assertions that make no sense, I point that out, you then claim I made your crazy assertions, and round and round we go.

You like "conflate" don't you?
Give it up. Either go and sup your beer at another table, or I will.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Indeed. But he didn't even want to enter the scheme until he had some money up front. He only changed his stance because he was shamed into it. Or rather, realised he'd lose his customer base. A but late for that I think.

I will let Guybrush Threepwood answer this as he knows far more about it than i do.

If you honestly believe Tim has lost his customer base over this you are deluded cheap beer and food will always sell and i imagine if Tim read this thread he wouldn't be losing sleep tonight over a handful of people slating him and his business, some here openly admitted they didn't like his political views, business ethics, beer and food before this happened so were not using his pubs anyway.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

You like "conflate" don't you?
Give it up. Either go and sup your beer at another table, or I will.

If you don't like the debate i suggest YOU leave it is not your job to tell others to stop posting just because you don't agree with what they are saying.

 

[Guybrush Threepwood]

You like "conflate" don't you?
Give it up. Either go and sup your beer at another table, or I will.

I am using the correct word to describe what you are doing. If you don't want to further the discussion that is fine by me.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I am using the correct word to describe what you are doing. If you don't want to further the discussion that is fine by me.

And as i have just posted by me also. (see quote below)

You like "conflate" don't you?
Give it up. Either go and sup your beer at another table, or I will.

If you don't like the debate i suggest YOU leave it is not your job to tell others to stop posting just because you don't agree with what they are saying.

 

[Guybrush Threepwood]

And as i have just posted by me also. (see quote below)
If you don't like the debate i suggest YOU leave it is not your job to tell others to stop posting just because you don't agree with what they are saying.

I was enjoying the debate, open discussion and different opinions are healthy

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I was enjoying the debate, open discussion and different opinions are healthy

Differences of opinions can be healthy but I used to hate logging in on Saturday mornings as all hell usually broke out on Friday nights when the home brew had been flowing and differences of opinion often boiled over into arguments i rarely have to get involved these days which is a good thing believe me.