Will you be downloading the Government track & trace app?

[Chippy_Tea]

Just look at Cambridge Analytica. It's no surprise that free thinking people are reticent to hand over data.

Please enlighten the rest of us what data are you not handing over by not using this app?

Do you use Google search, Google maps?

 

[Chippy_Tea]

If 'freethinking' comes into it at all as in using intellect to make a decision based on logic, I would have thought choosing between a risk of death against possible data mismanagement was fairly easy. Your 'freethinking' obviously works in a different way to mine.

I couldn't agree more.

 

[MyQul]

The problem is that politics in this country is now conducted by lies and spin ( and has been for a long time). Even thought the population mostly accept it they're also acutely aware of it. So the issue is trust. People don't trust politicians. So by extension they don't trust a Government backed app. You only have to look at our poll result (possibly as a microcosm of the population as a whole?). The result has been more or less tied at around 50/50 for ever since I posted the thread despite the evidence presented by forumite's in favour of the app

 

[Rodcx500z]

One little 5 letter word trust, could change the world and make it better will goverments learn no i don't think so

 

[MyQul]

One question I have for the techies on the forum, why are we developing our own app? Surely it's be cheaper and easier to use/purchase an existing one?

Is it a case of follow the money and looking at who's getting the contract to do it?

 

[Rodcx500z]

This is the problem a lot of people look at this as a sinister move with track record of goverment

 

[lancon]

One question I have for the techies on the forum, why are we developing our own app? Surely it's be cheaper and easier to use/purchase an existing one?

Is it a case of follow the money and looking at who's getting the contract to do it?

rest of europe already have track and trace software that could be used here. This government decided they wanted their own as they are more concerned about Brexit than the heath of the nation. We've already seen this in action with reference to COV19. The Europe app is time limited the UK app is not.

 

[MyQul]

This is the problem a lot of people look at this as a sinister move with track record of goverment

You only have to look at a a list like this of date breaches

https://www.csoonline.com/article/2130877/the-biggest-data-breaches-of-the-21st-century.html
Then look at a list like this of Government IT failures

https://www.softwareadvisoryservice.com/en/blog/biggest-uk-government-project-failures/
Then mix in the fact politicians are massive bull sh1ters. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why people might be wary of a Government backed app

 

[MyQul]

A separate point to the trust issue is the fact that the app is really helping other people first (although of course you're indirectly helping yourself, similar to the way masks work). All those forumites presenting perfectly good evidence for downloading the the app are assuming people are inherently altruistic (which I believe people are). However this assume zero risk to themselves. You only have to look at what happened with the panic buying. People were repeatedly told that there's plenty of food (and bog roll) but people perceived a risk to their own well being and panic bought anyway. This is just human nature.

This is another reason why some people don't wish to download it. Despite any evidence that it may be safe to download, there is a perceived risk to themselves ( those risks detailed in my post 68. Large amounts of well reported data breaches, bull sh1ting politico's and to a lesser extent Governments having a history of being **** at implementing large IT projects)

 

[dad_of_jon]

One question I have for the techies on the forum, why are we developing our own app? Surely it's be cheaper and easier to use/purchase an existing one?

Is it a case of follow the money and looking at who's getting the contract to do it?

I'd wager a guess that it's easier to develop the app to fit in with NHS rather than get NHS processes to change to accomodate an off the shelf app.

 

[Brewnaldo]

We have our own because that's what Domonic Cummings wants.

Extend from that what you want.

 

[Futureboy77]

If 'freethinking' comes into it at all as in using intellect to make a decision based on logic, I would have thought choosing between a risk of death against possible data mismanagement was fairly easy. Your 'freethinking' obviously works in a different way to mine.

Using the app has no direct correlation with a risk of death. I'm saying that as a Chartered Health and Safety professional who is more than conversant with the idea of risk assessment.
The risk (which is entirely separate to the Covid risk) of data mismanagement is significant, and one I'm not willing to take a chance with. If my employer insist on it, the app will be installed on a burner phone.

 

[Brewnaldo]

Assumed trust of a Conservative govt is really messing with my brain. Not having a default position of mistrust in these people blows my mind. Everything they do is for the benefot of themselves and/or their paymasters. The idea that this app will by default be totally above board is in direct contradiction with almost everything the tories have done since..... Well.... ever really

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Assumed trust of a Conservative govt is really messing with my brain.

People assuming (and its a monumental assumption) an app designed to save lives is going to spy on their lives meaning they will not use it really really messes with my brain.

Again i ask the tin foil hat wearers if they use google search, maps etc and if they do do they think their privacy is more at risk using an NHS app than it is using Googles many apps.

You trust google with all the information below but you don't trust the app because the Tory government has asked you to install it as it may save lives, fecking unbelievable.

[rant over]



Google collects a staggering amount of personal information about its users -- maybe even more than you realize. Google remembers every search you perform and every YouTube video you watch. Whether you have an Android phone or an iPhone ($699 at Apple), Google Maps logs everywhere you go, the route you take to get there and how long you stay -- even if you never open the app. When you take a closer look at everything Google knows about you, the results can be shocking, and maybe a little unsettling. Thankfully, there are a few things you can do about it.

As a spate of data leaks and privacy violations continue to weaken the public's trust in big tech companies, Google has responded by creating a privacy hub that lets you access, delete and limit the data it collects on you. Navigating all the various settings can get confusing, however, and it's not always clear what you're giving Google permission to do (or not do).

What's worse, whenever you make a change that would restrict how much or for how long Google tracks you, Google warns that its services won't work as well without unfettered access to your data. How true that may be isn't clear.

Despite Google's best efforts to increase transparency, recent revelations that the search giant was secretly sharing users' private data with third-party advertisers have challenged the public's trust in the company, whose Google Home ($49 at Walmart) and Google Nest lines of smart speakers seek to put microphones and cameras in the most private of settings -- your home.

 

[Futureboy77]

A natural distrust of a Tory government does not make one a tin foil hat wearer. There are plenty examples of duplicity within this government. Tory donors were direct investors in to Cambridge Analytica and look at how that was misused. There is one example of a proven direct link to a misuse of personal data.

I like the sad life reference, just because I question the use of a non time bound tracking app on my phone. I'm quite sure my life isn't sad.

I suppose I'd better get ready to howl at the moon, just because I question a shoddy governments intent, rather than blindly clapping like a seal.

 

[Brewnaldo]

Let's just stick to the covid crisis.

100k tests met. Lies. Tests not even taken counted.

614 million pieces of ppe. Aye, if we had 614 million Michael Jacksons working for the NHS. To anyone else that's 307 million pairs of gloves.

Herd Immunity (Cummings idea, the same Cummings who have this app to his pal with no tender process)

The idea that these people are above political opportunism at a time like this is quite easily blown out the water, since it was they who have made it all political.

What I have said generally is that I will support and use the app once I am happy that it's not a trojan horse for the likes of Cummings aswell as a tool in this fight. For me it should be permitted for use by act of parliament, allowing amendments etc to happen, most notable including the immediate cessation of its use upon parliaments say so, and deletion of all data. There are simply too many red flags just now and I wont be part of it until I dont think there are red flags any more.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

First part of post deleted as we x-posted and you have covered it here.

What I have said generally is that I will support and use the app once I am happy that it's not a trojan horse for the likes of Cummings aswell as a tool in this fight. For me it should be permitted for use by act of parliament, allowing amendments etc to happen, most notable including the immediate cessation of its use upon parliaments say so, and deletion of all data. There are simply too many red flags just now and I wont be part of it until I dont think there are red flags any more.

I notice you didn't answer my question about google so i will join in with the assumption and assume you do use their and other well known apps.

 

[Futureboy77]

I use Google. Although I restrict it's permissions. I don't think me using maps to find the best local chippy as an example is particularly interesting to anyone. A potential Trojan app is a different matter all together. I have many a sensitive document stored on my phone, be it business critical or personal.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

A potential Trojan app

I stopped reading there.

 

[Futureboy77]

Why? There is a proven history of manipulation of personal data.
Being the person appointed to head up GDPR compliance in a multi million pound turnover workplace, I'm well versed in what is acceptable and what isn't in terms of data retention.

You obviously didn't stop reading if you took the time to quote.

Fill your boots if you are happy with the app, but I don't see why you would discredit others for thinking differently.

I'm off to pour a pint.