Why no massive hop flavour? Out of date hops maybe?

[Blinky]

I brewed this: http://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/403230/amarillo-and-simcoe-ipa
A few weeks ago. It's really nice, has a good bit of body and a bit or residual sweetness due to the English yeast but....... The hops are not massive, they are not 'in your face' they are very muted - It's a nice beer, I really enjoyed it at the weekend but I was expecting a bit punchy, in your face IPA with all the late additions and I'm wondering if maybe the hops are to blame? I always buy from my local brewstore in Edinburgh and they are vacuum sealed but I just cant explain why there is so little hops in the finished beer. Below is the hop schedule

5 g Amarillo Leaf/Whole 8.1 Boil 60 min
5 g Simcoe Leaf/Whole 13.8 Boil 60 min
10 g Amarillo Leaf/Whole 8.1 Boil 15 min
10 g Simcoe Leaf/Whole 13.8 Boil 15 min
20 g Amarillo Leaf/Whole 8.1 Boil 10 min
20 g Simcoe Leaf/Whole 13.8 Boil 10 min
20 g Amarillo Leaf/Whole 8.1 Boil 5 min
20 g Simcoe Leaf/Whole 13.8 Boil 5 min
20 g Amarillo Leaf/Whole 8.1 Boil 0 min
20 g Simcoe Leaf/Whole 13.8 Boil 0 min
25 g Amarillo Leaf/Whole 8.1 Dry Hop 7 days
25 g Simcoe Leaf/Whole 13.8 Dry Hop 7 days

 

[geetee]

I brewed this: http://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/403230/amarillo-and-simcoe-ipa
A few weeks ago. It's really nice, has a good bit of body and a bit or residual sweetness due to the English yeast but....... The hops are not massive, they are not 'in your face' they are very muted - It's a nice beer, I really enjoyed it at the weekend but I was expecting a bit punchy, in your face IPA with all the late additions and I'm wondering if maybe the hops are to blame? I always buy from my local brewstore in Edinburgh and they are vacuum sealed but I just cant explain why there is so little hops in the finished beer. Below is the hop schedule

5 g Amarillo Leaf/Whole 8.1 Boil 60 min
5 g Simcoe Leaf/Whole 13.8 Boil 60 min
10 g Amarillo Leaf/Whole 8.1 Boil 15 min
10 g Simcoe Leaf/Whole 13.8 Boil 15 min
20 g Amarillo Leaf/Whole 8.1 Boil 10 min
20 g Simcoe Leaf/Whole 13.8 Boil 10 min
20 g Amarillo Leaf/Whole 8.1 Boil 5 min
20 g Simcoe Leaf/Whole 13.8 Boil 5 min
20 g Amarillo Leaf/Whole 8.1 Boil 0 min
20 g Simcoe Leaf/Whole 13.8 Boil 0 min
25 g Amarillo Leaf/Whole 8.1 Dry Hop 7 days
25 g Simcoe Leaf/Whole 13.8 Dry Hop 7 days

Each to their own but I find that hops at 15, 10 and sometimes even 5 mins are wasted for flavour. I tend to put late hops at maybe 1-2 mins and pile a load in steeped after cooling to 80°C. Dry hopping then for 4-5 days aor so and lately adding a hop tea just prior to bottling.
I reckon you could take approx 80g of the hops from 15- 5 mins and move them to steep and dry, then you might "see" them a bit more.

Also why use flavour hops for bittering when you could put a clean bittering hop i n, say magnum or target, and have a further 10 g for late hops.

I reckon your hops will be OK ,it's how you use them that matters.

 

[Blinky]

Each to their own but I find that hops at 15, 10 and sometimes even 5 mins are wasted for flavour. I tend to put late hops at maybe 1-2 mins and pile a load in steeped after cooling to 80°C. Dry hopping then for 4-5 days aor so and lately adding a hop tea just prior to bottling.
I reckon you could take approx 80g of the hops from 15- 5 mins and move them to steep and dry, then you might "see" them a bit more.

Also why use flavour hops for bittering when you could put a clean bittering hop i n, say magnum or target, and have a further 10 g for late hops.

I reckon your hops will be OK ,it's how you use them that matters.

Good points - It seemed that the early addition of the flavour hops was not too much - 10g seemed OK to loose from later on. I have been reading about late hops additions and do think going forward I will just dump all in at 5mins but still, this beer is made and I'm dissapointed in the hop flavour, and dont want to do another beer with this many hops and still not get that massive punchy hop profile.

 

[IainM]

I had that with Citra leaf hops. Put 100g in a brew: 20g at 5 mins, 30g at flameout and 50g dry hop. I was expecting to be punched in the face with the stuff but it really took the back seat. I've since been using pellets for American aroma/flavour hops instead and have had much more success.

 

[Blinky]

Have to say I much prefer pellets, especially as a dry hop, I just dont seem to get anything from leaf as a dry hop

 

[DoctorMick]

I had that with Citra leaf hops. Put 100g in a brew: 20g at 5 mins, 30g at flameout and 50g dry hop. I was expecting to be punched in the face with the stuff but it really took the back seat. I've since been using pellets for American aroma/flavour hops instead and have had much more success.

I've had the same, 100g leaf citra in a 5g brew gives a nice flavour but it certainly isn't punchy. I'm hoping the brew I have fermenting with 100g pellets all added at flameout packs a much bigger punch.

 

[Blinky]

I'm moving to pellets as well. Managed to find a supplier who is cheaper than my brewstore and they only do pellets! £12.15 for 250g of Nelson Sauvin including P&P!

 

[IainM]

I'm moving to pellets as well. Managed to find a supplier who is cheaper than my brewstore and they only do pellets! �£12.15 for 250g of Nelson Sauvin including P&P!

Yeah, I got some 2015 Citra pellets from Crossmyloof recently, first batch since the leaf disappointment so I'm look forward to using them and hope I won't be disappointed again!

 

[geetee]

I'm moving to pellets as well. Managed to find a supplier who is cheaper than my brewstore and they only do pellets! �£12.15 for 250g of Nelson Sauvin including P&P!

That is cheap where is that?

 

[jceg316]

Something else to add is the yeast used. S-04 isn't the best yeast for a hoppy IPA, you might get more hop character with MJ's West Coast yeast or US-05. I've not used the former but I have read it makes a punchier hoppy beer than US-05. I've used the latter a lot and quite like it.

 

[IainM]

That is cheap where is that?

https://www.facebook.com/TheCrossmy...171589874103/1327139903977271/?type=3&theater

 

[pms67]

I brewed this: http://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/403230/amarillo-and-simcoe-ipa
A few weeks ago. It's really nice, has a good bit of body and a bit or residual sweetness due to the English yeast but....... The hops are not massive, they are not 'in your face' they are very muted - It's a nice beer, I really enjoyed it at the weekend but I was expecting a bit punchy, in your face IPA with all the late additions and I'm wondering if maybe the hops are to blame? I always buy from my local brewstore in Edinburgh and they are vacuum sealed but I just cant explain why there is so little hops in the finished beer. Below is the hop schedule

5 g Amarillo Leaf/Whole 8.1 Boil 60 min
5 g Simcoe Leaf/Whole 13.8 Boil 60 min
10 g Amarillo Leaf/Whole 8.1 Boil 15 min
10 g Simcoe Leaf/Whole 13.8 Boil 15 min
20 g Amarillo Leaf/Whole 8.1 Boil 10 min
20 g Simcoe Leaf/Whole 13.8 Boil 10 min
20 g Amarillo Leaf/Whole 8.1 Boil 5 min
20 g Simcoe Leaf/Whole 13.8 Boil 5 min
20 g Amarillo Leaf/Whole 8.1 Boil 0 min
20 g Simcoe Leaf/Whole 13.8 Boil 0 min
25 g Amarillo Leaf/Whole 8.1 Dry Hop 7 days
25 g Simcoe Leaf/Whole 13.8 Dry Hop 7 days

I was in Brewstore on Saturday, they are selling a load of hops half price but they are 2012 crop? Seems a long time to me,almost 5 years,surely something will be lost,not saying that your hops were this year but as others have said,pellets are miles better IMO

 

[jceg316]

I was in Brewstore on Saturday, they are selling a load of hops half price but they are 2012 crop? Seems a long time to me,almost 5 years,surely something will be lost,not saying that your hops were this year but as others have said,pellets are miles better IMO

How were the hops stored? If they were vacuum packed where light couldn't get to them and frozen they'll still be very good.

 

[Cwrw666]

I brewed this: http://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/403230/amarillo-and-simcoe-ipa
A few weeks ago. It's really nice, has a good bit of body and a bit or residual sweetness due to the English yeast but....... The hops are not massive, they are not 'in your face' they are very muted - It's a nice beer, I really enjoyed it at the weekend but I was expecting a bit punchy, in your face IPA with all the late additions and I'm wondering if maybe the hops are to blame? I always buy from my local brewstore in Edinburgh and they are vacuum sealed but I just cant explain why there is so little hops in the finished beer. Below is the hop schedule

5 g Amarillo Leaf/Whole 8.1 Boil 60 min
5 g Simcoe Leaf/Whole 13.8 Boil 60 min
10 g Amarillo Leaf/Whole 8.1 Boil 15 min
10 g Simcoe Leaf/Whole 13.8 Boil 15 min
20 g Amarillo Leaf/Whole 8.1 Boil 10 min
20 g Simcoe Leaf/Whole 13.8 Boil 10 min
20 g Amarillo Leaf/Whole 8.1 Boil 5 min
20 g Simcoe Leaf/Whole 13.8 Boil 5 min
20 g Amarillo Leaf/Whole 8.1 Boil 0 min
20 g Simcoe Leaf/Whole 13.8 Boil 0 min
25 g Amarillo Leaf/Whole 8.1 Dry Hop 7 days
25 g Simcoe Leaf/Whole 13.8 Dry Hop 7 days

Forgive me if I'm wrong about this, but in your face punchy hop IPA is a mixture of bitterness and flavour. Bitterness from early additions, flavour and aroma from late ones. You only had 10g of hops in there for the full boil, which is about half of what I'd be using for a brown ale. So whatever it is you've brewed it is not an IPA.

 

[Covrich]

I dunno I think it might be actually. According to the recipe it does say 50 IBUs and they are all high AA, bitterness will certainly be attributed from the later additions like the 15 mins with those AAs?

 

[pms67]

How were the hops stored? If they were vacuum packed where light couldn't get to them and frozen they'll still be very good.

Vacuum packed on the shelf, not frozen though

 

[Cwrw666]

I dunno I think it might be actually. According to the recipe it does say 50 IBUs and they are all high AA, bitterness will certainly be attributed from the later additions like the 15 mins with those AAs?

Yes, just looked up some other recipes. I would have thought though that IBUs from later additions would be much more susceptable to errors such as %AA being lower than the recipe calls for due to storage decay, or even a poor crop. Also were the timings exact. Also how quickly was the wort chilled after switch-off. How soon was the wort drained off the hops.
Many of these would have no effect on the early additions but would affect the later ones.

 

[Blinky]

I usually switch off the boiler, chill to 80 degress then add the flame out hops and leave for 30 mins - going to use pellets from now on as well, now that I have found them at a decent price.

 

[Covrich]

Similar to most of us then with the cooling hop stand schedule..

I personally find pellets to be more consistent

 

[mike77]

I don't do any dedicated bittering additions in my IPAs anymore. I like to cram as much hops in as I can over the last 20 mins to maximize flavor and aroma additions. With high AA hops especially I find dedicated bittering at 60 mins severly restricts the amount you can start adding in at 20 if you are trying to keep the IBUs at a reasonable level