Why does this have to be so confusing!?

[Sadfield]

I got my thick head on. Just tell me if I’m doing this right. I hate maths.
Baking Soda
NaHCO3 (8g)
Divided by
Total water volume (39litres)
Multiplied by
Mash water volume (20litres)

8 / 39 x 20 = 4.1g Mash
8 / 39 x 19 = 3.89g sparge

This good?

That's right if you are simply trying to get two different volumes of exactly the same water.

@strange-steve calculator may work differently, if that's what you are now using.

 

[Monkhouse]

No the calculator is 8.4g mash and zero for sparge.

Sorry I should have mentioned this is just an example and relating to the brewers friend calculator.
I’m trying to get to grips with how different calculators work the additions out

 

[Cheshire Cat]

No problem

 

[Monkhouse]

@strange-steve calculator may work differently, if that's what you are now using.

Again, not using any calculator yet as it’s going to be a while before I can brew again so I’m just going to use this time to familiarise myself with different calculators

 

[Mash Monster]

Again, not using any calculator yet as it’s going to be a while before I can brew again so I’m just going to use this time to familiarise myself with different calculators

Sensible idea I played around with a couple of different calculators and finally settled on Brewfather as my go to software. That doesn’t mean it’s any better than any of the other software/ calculators out there it’s just what suits me best. I found water additions absolutely mind blowing at first and although I’m still trying to come to grips with it I think my beer has definitely improved. Stick with it do what suits you

 

[Monkhouse]

Sensible idea I played around with a couple of different calculators and finally settled on Brewfather as my go to software. That doesn’t mean it’s any better than any of the other software/ calculators out there it’s just what suits me best. I found water additions absolutely mind blowing at first and although I’m still trying to come to grips with it I think my beer has definitely improved. Stick with it do what suits you

Hmm, I’ve downloaded Brewfather and input my source water but can’t find any water additions calculator?

 

[Brew_DD2]

Hmm, I’ve downloaded Brewfather and input my source water but can’t find any water additions calculator?

It's in the recipe under water. There is a calc button.

 

[Pennine]

Just tried the brewfather app, it's actually nice and I like how easy it is to use your phone. Might be time to make the switch?

 

[Monkhouse]

Yeah it looks alright but first impressions are it’s allot of fannying about inputting all that data! What I liked about the brewers friend basic calculator is that it tells you what beer styles your unaltered source water is good for and from there you can add salts to create a darker beer for example or bring out the maltyness more or bitterness or a balance between the 2

 

[Mash Monster]

Yeah it looks alright but first impressions are it’s allot of fannying about inputting all that data! What I liked about the brewers friend basic calculator is that it tells you what beer styles your unaltered source water is good for and from there you can add salts to create a darker beer for example or bring out the maltyness more or bitterness or a balance between the 2

Yep I suppose it’s very dependant on your water source I now live in Lincolnshire and the water it’s very hard. So I use a combination of RO water diluted with my tap water. As I said it’s what’s good for you if you are comfortable with Brewers Friend go with it there are no rules here !

 

[Brew_DD2]

Yeah it looks alright but first impressions are it’s allot of fannying about inputting all that data! What I liked about the brewers friend basic calculator is that it tells you what beer styles your unaltered source water is good for and from there you can add salts to create a darker beer for example or bring out the maltyness more or bitterness or a balance between the 2

You only have to input your water once though (by creating a profile) and that's it. It's set for every recipe you make. It's the best software out there by some distance.

 

[matt76]

@Monkhouse in the photos in your OP you've set 20L mash water and 19L sparge water - is that really right, you're brewing with 39L total? That must be a monster brew if you are!

(I only do small 12L batches starting with 15L water total)

Also, can you share your grist? If you're making a stout then the dark grains are going to impact on the mash pH.

(There is an argument for not mashing with the dark grains but that's another story)

I can explain how to use the water calculator in Brewer's Friend but I prefer to lead you to your own solution rather than just spoon feed you my answer - I think you'll learn more that way.

 

[Monkhouse]

Yeah to end up with 25l in the fv. The 39l accounts for grain absorption, boil off, boiler loss, hop absorption, even wort lost in the hoses and pump.
I know there’s an argument for steeping dark grains separately but I’ll be honest I’d rather guide my dad into my mum than fart about doing that.
I don’t think I’m really going to even worry too much about the dark grains affecting the mash ph either if I’m totally honest- my aim for water additions is only to see if it makes a marked improvement to darker beers.
My water atm is fantastic for amber beers but with stouts I just feel it could do with slightly more head retention especially.
I don’t want to go full geek into water treatment like allot of ppl on here, each to their own.
That said here’s the grist of the stout I’ve just made:
Crisp Caramalt (1044 grams)
BESTMALZ Pilsner (5822 grams)
Weyermann® Carafa Special® Type 3 (224 grams)
Chocolate Wheat Malt (224 grams)
Crisp Dark Crystal Malt (372 grams)

 

[Monkhouse]

This was the last stout I did, milk stout with chocolate vanilla and coffee. Tastes amazing once you past the fact the head lasts as long as it takes to put the bottle cap in the damn bin

 

[Sadfield]

This was the last stout I did, milk stout with chocolate vanilla and coffee. Tastes amazing once you past the fact the head lasts as long as it takes to put the bottle cap in the damn bin

Loss of head retention is likely to be fats in the chocolate, possibly the lactose, and the vanilla if its an extract in oil. In what form was the chocolate and vanilla?

 

[Monkhouse]

It was only about 12g of dark chocolate. I actually chose green and blacks 90% as it had the least fat in it

 

[Monkhouse]

Loss of head retention is likely to be fats in the chocolate, possibly the lactose, and the vanilla if its an extract in oil. In what form was the chocolate and vanilla?

Oh and the vanilla was 3x fresh pods added 10 min before end of boil. Lactose 150g

 

[foxy]

There's only one person who suggested 500ppm as an upper limit. You.

19g of calcium chloride in 39L of the OPs water adds c340ppm to the 10ppm. You say it's too much. Why? What will it result in? What did it do to your beer?

You've stopped the OP from using their calculations, why?

No one has provided any anecdotal evidence that they've used this amount and it was too much, in either thread.

I never said 500 ppm was the upper limit, that was Palmer? I have said that the Mickey Mouse calculator is way off. Cant even enter a grain bill or what type of stout yet gives the salt additions.
Any other calculator for the OP's water won't be in a bulls roar of a 19 g addition of CaCl

Foxy frequently advises that you shouldn't take advice from forums. So I guess you should just ignore anything he says...

What I do say is, 'don't put questions out to a forum' and this thread is a typical reason why. Always far better to research the questions which need to be answered.

There are plenty of good water calculators on line, most of them mentioned, I have used just two, Bru'n Water (a small donation) and Brewers Friend, but usually now because I add the none fermentables at mash out there is barely any difference to my additions so whatever I am brewing I just add the usual salts dependent on the volume of water.

I answered his question in post 6 the salt amounts needed from the difference in the source water and the target water, now I know mash water is 20 litres the full answer is 5 g bi-carb, 1g Calcium chloride and 2 g gypsum. The 19 litres of sparge just needs an acid addition to bring the water down to a pH of 5,5

I got my thick head on. Just tell me if I’m doing this right. I hate maths.
Baking Soda
NaHCO3 (8g)
Divided by
Total water volume (39litres)
Multiplied by
Mash water volume (20litres)

8 / 39 x 20 = 4.1g Mash
8 / 39 x 19 = 3.89g sparge

This good?

Why add a carbonate to sparge water? You will want to lower the pH not raise it. Easiest way is to just acidify your sparge water. Again there are different thoughts on this, just giving you the easiest solution.
If you have questions contact Martin, nice bloke always willing to help.
[email protected]

 

[Sadfield]

Cant even enter a grain bill or what type of stout yet gives the salt additions.

They're profiles for a stout, and therefore assume that the grain bill will contain the appropriate grains for a stout. Most sensible people can understand that. In terms of colour (srm, ebc) and therefore the requirement for roasted grains, there's commonality over all styles, be it Irish, American, West Indies. The profiles will and do work with all stouts. In the same way a Bitter profile will work across many styles of pale ale, without needing to know the exact grist, geographical location or whether it meets Brungard's approval.

The OP's objective is to improve mouthfeel, not brew to your interpretations. That requires chloride and sodium. They've also said they find it complicated, so I'm not sure the logic of recommending calculators with a massively increased set of parameters. That feels a bit stupid.

 

[foxy]

They're profiles for a stout, and therefore assumes that the grain bill contains the grains for a stout. In terms of colour (srm, ebc) and therefore the requirement for roasted grains, there's consistent over all styles, be it Irish, American, West Indies. The profiles will and do work with all stouts. In the same way a Bitter profile will work across many styles of pale ale, without needing to know the exact grist, geographical location or whether it meets Brungard's approval.

The OP's objective is to improve mouthfeel, not brew to your interpretations. That requires chloride.

Not to the overdoing of the chloride, which I would look at your calculations again of the ppm. If it isn't to Brungard's approval does that mean it has to be your approval?
Get a grip. Everything doesn't have to be done your way. As I said run the calculations through other calculators and it comes nothing like 19g. I have offered solutions not arguments, Martin is a respected man when it comes to brewing water, and if you think he is wrong you now have his email address to tell him so.