Why does my beer taste like this?

[naturals]

I've just completed my second batch of beer - first was a Coopers IPA (a one can extract kit), second was The Homebrew Company's 'Discover American IPA' (a two can with hops and malt grain additions). As I'm just about to start an all grain batch I'd really appreciate some help figuring out what I'm doing wrong.

The first batch was 50 / 50 really good / really weird tasting. It seemed purely down to the bottle picked as even some of the later bottles opened had the same weird taste. My process is to ferment in multiple 5L demijohns, add to a single bottling bucket, add carbonation sugar, bottle using a siphon (I will confess using my mouth to start this) and secondary ferment under my window for two weeks. The flavour wasn't unlikable but certainly not desirable - it tasted slightly citrus like, quite flat, almost like washing up liquid tasting (which was weird as I'd washed using oxy, done half a dozen rinses then star-san-ed). I'm not sure if this is what people describe as cardboard like, never having eaten cardboard before. The beers had good carbonation once poured but a quickly diminishing head.

The second batch was bottled around 10 days ago and we decided to crack one open last night. The off-taste was exactly the same, perhaps even slightly stronger than the first batch. I read up about it last time and was super careful about not oxygenating the beer before bottling. I left the caps on loose for 10min or so before capping to try and purge some of the air. I even bought a Little Bottler to reduce oxidation. I started the siphon using some star-san solution to start - once it was through the hose I ditched this and got on with bottling. I had to restart once using my mouth. The beer let out a decent hiss on opening so I don't think there's a problem with the seal.

I'm really stuck here! Please help!

 

[graysalchemy]

Can you describe the taste?

 

[naturals]

Can you describe the taste?

It's really difficult to as it's not a flavour I'm that familiar with. The closest I can describe it as is like a couple of drops of washing up liquid made it into some bottles. I know this can't be the case though as the first batch had no washing up liquid near them at all and they were cleaned in large batches so (in theory) should all have this flavour if it came from cleaning products.

It's a citrus like taste, quite a dry mouth feel, an aroma which is the same as the taste. Both batches I could smell that something was up before taking a sip.

 

[dave0w]

what sanitizer did you use?

 

[naturals]

what sanitizer did you use?

They were given a very good soaking for maybe 20min in 1/2oz of Star San diluted in 2-3 gallons of warm water then dried over a radiator for an hour before bottling.

 

[pittsy]

Try reading these they may help http://www.howtobrew.com/section4/chapter21-2.html

 

[serum]

If you're drinking from a kit 10 days after bottling it might just need a lot of time to settle. They can change dramatically. I'm not incredibly experienced but quite a few of mine have been crap after two weeks but excellent when left for a lot longer. The IPA and other hoppy kits especially.

All the guides I've read say soapyness is caused by not cleaning properly or leaving the beer too long in the FV.

 

[jkp]

Could there be a problem with sunlight? Are you using brown bottles, and do you leave the DJ in a dark place?

The Palmer link above suggested leaving too long in primary can cause soapy flavours. Any chance it is this?

 

[naturals]

Could there be a problem with sunlight? Are you using brown bottles, and do you leave the DJ in a dark place?

I'm using brown bottles - the demijohns are clear glass and left in a room with no windows (though there is artificial lighting). If the artificial lighting was causing it I'd expect all bottles would taste this way.

The Palmer link above suggested leaving too long in primary can cause soapy flavours. Any chance it is this?

Possibly - I bottled after 12-13 days in the primary though it had stopped bubbling about a week into the fermentation. Again, I'd have thought this would effect all my bottles though.

 

[StevieDS]

12 - 13 days is nowhere near long enough for soapy tastes to develop as described by JP. I normally leave mine for around 3 weeks.
That's an odd one :hmm:

 

[chrig]

How many times are the bottles rinsed after being washed with oxi clean?

 

[naturals]

How many times are the bottles rinsed after being washed with oxi clean?

A minimum of 3-4 times, plus a soak in Star San.

I'm beginning to suspect there's something up with my sanitisation as I can't see any other way that some bottles are affected but not others. Going to give them a really good soak in some hot HOT water, a proper rinse then a strong star-san soak before I do my bottling tonight.

 

[chrig]

Filling a spray bottle with starsan seems to be a popular method of sanitising, a quick squirt of no rinse and left to dry. Stronger does not always mean better.

You may just need to give them more time, consistency is something we struggle with at home.

 

[dave0w]

strong star-san soak before I do my bottling tonight.

i would think thats a bad idea

 

[naturals]

strong star-san soak before I do my bottling tonight.

i would think thats a bad idea

Don't worry - I'm not talking neat sanitiser or anything - I just suspect I'm always a little on the light side as the stuff is so bloody expensive.

 

[bobsbeer]

Just to rule out the sanitiser try rinsing. I know it's a no rinse, but your concentration may be wrong. Or try sanitising with thin bleach for a few bottles and give a good rinse. Then compare with your usually prepared bottles. That way you rule out any sanitising issues or pin it down. You need a control sample to work out issues like this. Thin bleach is a very good sanitiser but does need a good rinse.

 

[nobby_n]

What water are you using? My dad used to brew a lot from kits, I can remember similar tastes on some batches. I am on my fifth kit, brewed in 40 pint fv with airlock, just using wilko sanitiser/ cleaner with no probs thus far, in fact some excellent results. However I only ever use tesco spring water at about 13p per litre, adding about £2.30 per 40 pints. I think the fluoride might be part of the problem with tap water, and possibly water hardness?

 

[naturals]

What water are you using? My dad used to brew a lot from kits, I can remember similar tastes on some batches. I am on my fifth kit, brewed in 40 pint fv with airlock, just using wilko sanitiser/ cleaner with no probs thus far, in fact some excellent results. However I only ever use tesco spring water at about 13p per litre, adding about £2.30 per 40 pints. I think the fluoride might be part of the problem with tap water, and possibly water hardness?

Central London drinking water - I read a few threads on it and it's not terrible for brewing with. I use Campden to kill off the chlorine. I figure if the water was the problem it'd affect all the bottles whereas only about half are affected. I'm guessing it's something post-FV that's causing the problem.

 

[Dads_Ale]

As you say this is only happening to some of the bottles then the bottling process would be the best thing to look at for problems.
It may be worth trying a complete change on your bottle cleaning regime. This would at least eliminate the problem or disprove it as a source.
I rinse my bottles with dilute VWP cleaner/steriliser, leave a few minutes then rinse twice with cold water. I have not had any problems yet.
I do find the plastic bottle tree and the bottle washer attachment makes life easier.

 

[adman1966]

This is a long shot but I assume you are sanitising the bottle caps as well.

Just a thought that hasn't been mentioned yet.