Why are my beers dark?

[keith thomas]

The majority of my brews end up darker than I expect. It's pretty consistent now after more than 50 brews mostly from kits but often part grain brews. So the pale ales are dark gold, the golden ales are amber, and IPAs are even darker. They also have a caramel flavour. What can I be doing wrong? The most glaring example was a citra IPA brewed alongside an identical kit, almost at the same time which is a dark amber colour whilst the other was perfect. Could this be oxidation?

 

[The Baron]

It is possible it is oxidation but I am sure you would be able to taste if it was as it gives a wet cardboard taste to your beer.
So do you make up the kits as per instructions or do you boil or heat them in anyway because it sounds like Maillards which is in lay mans terms caramelisation from boiling down too much for lighter beers

 

[AJA]

Either that or they are caramelising on the bottom of the pan.

 

[keith thomas]

The citra IPA brews were simple extract kits which didn't require any boiling. They fermented at the same temperature a week apart with the only difference being the fv, one of which didn't show any bubbles through the airlock. Could oxygen get in through an imperfectly sealed airlock hole? Wouldn't the positive pressure inside the fv keep oxygen out?

 

[The Baron]

If they were the same kit and fermented a week apart something has altered one. Did they taste the same or was one not as nice to put it i.e the darker one

 

[The Baron]

Description of oxidised beer.
The Beer Judge Certification Program (BJCP) describes oxidized beer as demonstrating “Any one or a combination of stale, winy/vinous, cardboard, papery, or sherry-like aromas and flavors.”

Picture of oxidised beer the

y are the same but the darker one is oxidised

 

[Brew_DD2]

I found when I brewed with extract it was always darker than the corresponding beer brewed all grain. Could also be oxidation if it starts out lighter and is getting noticeably darker. That sickly sweet caramel flavour being repeated across multiple beers is suggestive of this too.

 

[Agentgonzo]

If it's liquid extract, did you check the dates on the kits. Liquid extract is known to go darker with age, even if it's well canned. Kits can sit on a shelf or in a warehouse for years

 

[keith thomas]

Thanks for your help everyone, I'm sure now that the problem is oxidation and I have to assume that the oxygen is getting in via the airlock hole or around the rim during fermentation because that's the only variable left. Don't think it's the age of the kits because the two IPA s were limited editions only introduced recently. I'll try to seal the fvs before brewing again.

 

[Dazzelknight]

I don’t think air getting through ur airlock or the seal of ur FV would cause the oxidation. It be most likely when ur bottling or keging. If bottling use a bottle wand and use a few plastic bottles. Gently squeeze them to push the beer up and the air out before screwing the cap on..see if they turn darker.

 

[The Baron]

I am with DazzelK it is very unlikely that oxygen is getting in during fermentation as co2 is produced and will form a blanket over the beer as it is heavier than oxygen which will protect the beer from the oxygen.
You need to look at your procedure from ther like transfer/bottling and not leaving too much head space if using bottle, half a inch headspace is about right.
Ps is the beer darker before bottling?

 

[keith thomas]

I don’t think air getting through ur airlock or the seal of ur FV would cause the oxidation. It be most likely when ur bottling or keging. If bottling use a bottle wand and use a few plastic bottles. Gently squeeze them to push the beer up and the air out before screwing the cap on..see if they turn darker.

That's really interesting thanks, I hadn't thought of that. My current technique uses a simple syphon tube and a muslin bag but the fv lid has to be open for the half hour or so that I'm bottling. Is that enough time?
I've checked out the bottle wand but please can you describe the plastic bottle trick in more detail?

 

[Dazzelknight]

Once the bottle is filled, squeeze the bottle gently so the beer is level with the top of the bottle, then screw the lid on. This will produce a vacuum. If you’re not been using a bottle wand I’m certain this is what’s causing your oxidation problem.
Leaving the lid off whilst bottling is unavoidable, but this will do no harm to your brew. This video will show u exactly what you need to do and shows what happens with bad bottling techniques

 

[Agentgonzo]

If you’re not been using a bottle wand I’m certain this is what’s causing your oxidation problem.

We're not certain that the darkening is produced by oxidation. We're still guessing at this point.

Oxidation isn't (necessarily) the big boogyman it's made out to be. Many people don't use a bottling wand (like me) and don't have a problem with oxidation. There have also been threads on here which show (not conclusively, mind) that air in the headspace contributes more to oxidation than not using a bottling wand.

One way to see if the colour change is due to oxidation would be to record the colour of the beer post fermentation. Take photos in repeatable light (eg, evening with your kitchen lights) with a sheet of white paper behind the beer to make sure your camera's white balance is repeatable. Then do the same with the beer when you open it to drink. If they are the same colour, then it's not down to oxidation.

It _may_ still be oxidation, but try to determine if it really is before jumping to conclusions - otherwise you'll be trying a bunch of different things to fix a problem that doesn't actually exist.

Have you considered the maillard/Caramelisation mentioned above? We don't know how strongly you boil your wort. Is there any brown residue on the bottom/element of your boil kettle after use? If there is a fair amount, then maybe you're boiling too hard and that's what's contributing to the colour. It would also explain the caramel flavours you mention

 

[keith thomas]

That's really interesting thanks, I hadn't thought of that. My current technique uses a simple syphon tube and a muslin bag but the fv lid has to be open for the half hour or so that I'm bottling. Is that enough time?
I've checked out the bottle wand but please can you describe the plastic bottle trick in more detail?

Ok thanks I've re-read your post about plastic bottles and I get it now! Bit slow on the uptake!
I'll try these and also improvise a temporary lid for the fv whilst bottling.

 

[Agentgonzo]

How long do you keep your bottles for after bottling before drinking? And at what temperature?
Oxidation happens much faster for hoppier beers, but for traditional British beers that aren't aggressively hopped, oxidation (to the point where it is a noticeably different colour) takes more than just a few weeks, and is slowed down a lot by cold temperatures. If you keep your bottles in a fridge (or garage at the moment) and drink the first one a few weeks after bottling and that is notably darker than you expect, I would not think it's oxidation.

If you kept it for at least a month in a warm house, then it might be.

(but certainly trying to eliminate oxidation won't harm your beers at all!)

 

[Agentgonzo]

Once the bottle is filled, squeeze the bottle gently so the beer is level with the top of the bottle, then screw the lid on. This will produce a vacuum. If you’re not been using a bottle wand I’m certain this is what’s causing your oxidation problem.
Leaving the lid off whilst bottling is unavoidable, but this will do no harm to your brew. This video will show u exactly what you need to do and shows what happens with bad bottling techniques

It's a shame that he didn't do two additional bottles when he made this video: 1 where he left air in the headspace and didn't shake it (which is far more representative of most people's bottling practises - especially with glass where you can't squeeze the air out); and another where he filled without a bottling wand (and didn't shake). That would have been far more interesting IMO.

It's worth noting that the Jedi Juice he used in that demonstration is a NEIPA, so far more susceptible to oxidation (good for the video) than normal beers, so don't expect all your beers to oxidise this badly (and don't shake your bottles! )

 

[keith thomas]

The video is really informative thanks. I've got a few ideas now and I'm definitely going to get a wand and stop shaking my bottles.
Thanks everyone!

 

[Agentgonzo]

The video is really informative thanks. I've got a few ideas now and I'm definitely going to get a wand and stop shaking my bottles.
Thanks everyone!

Ah - you were shaking your bottles? OK, then I backtrack on my assumptions. Yes, if you're shaking your bottles, then I would say it very probably is oxidation!
The very quick and easy step is to stop shaking the bottles.
Next time you bottle a batch, try taking 4 control bottles and label them (in the above style of the video). 1 bottled and shaken like you have been doing previously, 1 bottled without the wand but not shaken, and 1 bottled with the bottling wand and not shaken, and a final 1 filled with the bottling wand and squeezing the air out. That will be really informative to you as to what part contributes to the oxidation.

Actually, a fifth variant of filling without the wand and squeezing the air out would also be good.

 

[The Baron]

When you did the 2 same brews did they look the same colour also did the colour change after bottling
Ps do not shake the bottles the sugar will dissolve and get eaten by the yeast, shaking has now been condemned by many as shaking oxygen into the beer rather than it sitting at the top of the neck with very little contact area plus it will be forced to the top as co2 is produced during secondary bottle conditioning thus minimising the oxygen ingress into the beer