water. (re-titled THT)

[happyhoppytaff]

i have made a few different best bitters (youngs, geordie, edme) with different sugars (white, demerera, molasses) they are all slightly diferent (i have found my favourite, it is edme with demerera sugar) but there is one background flavour that is common to them all. the only thing i havent changed in my months of experimentation is the water. i wonder if my tap water is giving me this flavour. its not bad, its just there.

my water is very soft. we moved here from a city with much harder water. when we moved the difference was striking.

i was looking at water purifiers the other day. it would take ages to filter 5 gallons. im not sure if it is practical.

what do you guys do, if anything, to improve this huge part of the lovely beer?

 

[phettebs]

My water is extremely hard. It would give my lighter colored beers and pale ales an astringent flavor that was not very nice. I had an analysis of it done so I know the mineral content. Now I buy distilled or reverse osmosis water and then mix in my tap water and brewing salts to reach a target profile. It's a little more work but well worth it IMO.

What flavors are you getting from yours? Can you describe them?

Baz

 

[Aleman]

Water treatment is most important in mashing . . . subsequent brewing stages it becomes much less important. As you are brewing from kits water treatment is pretty much unimportant. . . .also any minerals you require in the wort should already be there as the wort has been prepared and concentrated with due care by the manufacturer (which for the kits you mentioned is Muntons) . . . so in fact the softer and purer the water the better for making kits . . . . . Allegedly.

You could try using something like Tesco Ashbeck or Asda Smartprice water and add a tsp of gypsum to it which will give you more calcium in the water . . . and you start from a well known and used baseline . . . alternatively a tsp of gypsum with your water will probably achieve the same results.

Don't expect miracles though, I do wonder if what you are experiencing is THT (That 'Homebrew' Taste)? and the only way to get rid of that is to look at the more expensive kits . . . especially those using dried malt extract . . . selecting the freshest kits (with the longest BBE dates) . . . using more yeast and ditching the Kit yeast and concentrating on temperature control for fermentation

 

[happyhoppytaff]

phetts, aleman, thanks for the replies.

THT! could be. its in my stout too. i will try and describe this flavour, ill use that list of possible off flavours posted here recently to guide me. id better go and drink some beer

maybe a bit later

until then... :

 

[phettebs]

AM, good points. I always tend to go into this with my AG glasses on which is a bad assumption.

THT. I didn't realize that existed in the UK too! We refer to it as the homebrew 'tang' and I'm glad it's just not us. Seems to be more pronounced in LME than with DME recipes.

 

[happyhoppytaff]

ive just sampled a beer. a new one. i bottled it just over 3 weeks ago.

it has this same 'tang' but it is more of an aroma than a flavour. i cant taste it but i can smell it.

im going to comapre with an older brew in a bit.

 

[hayzer]

Hi All

First time poster - I actually registered specifically to add to this thread, I found it after googling "homebrew tang" . I started brewing last December, started with 3 kits which all had the same tang off them, and quite noticeable too.

I decided to move straight to extract brewing to see if that would improve my results. I've been doing small-scale batches (5 litres) as I don't want to be brewing 20 litre batches that may turn out to be pure muck.

My first extract batch is about 3 weeks in the bottle now, an ale, and it too has the same tang. Bottled two further batches tonight, an IPA and a bitter, and had a taste of each before priming. The IPA tasted great (loads of hops so could be masking off-flavours) but the Bitter had that familiar taste off it. Very disheartening.

I've used different ingredients, fermenting vessels etc; the only 2 constants I can think of is the water (tap) and the room where the fermenters are kept. I'll change these for my next brew and post the results in case it helps anyone else!

Edit to say that I'm pretty sure it's not young beer flavours I'm tasting, as I'm currently drinking a 3 month old bottle of stout (kit) and if anything the homebrew tang has gotten stronger with age!!

 

[Moley]

Welcome to the forum hayzer :

Sorry to hear that you are having teething troubles, but I'm sure the guys here will be able to set you straight.

Two things we'd need to know first: are you only using Liquid Malt Extract syrups out of tin cans or have you tried using Dried Malt Extract (Spraymalt), and are you pre-treating your tap water in any way (e.g. Campden tablet to de-chlorinate) ?

 

[snail59]

Just my two penneth. Could it be residue from sanitizing/sterilizing not being fully removed from the bottles. I only say this as I have a Beer that I bottled a small quantity of and put the rest in a corni. The bottled stuff was fantastic (sadly all gone now) but the corni beer has a slight metallic/chemical tcp type tang to it. I can only put this down to not fully removing all the sterilizer/sanitizer solution from the corni. Just my thoughts.

 

[hayzer]

Thanks guys (and apologies to HHT for hijacking the thread!). I use DME, I've never used liquid. The first kit I ever did was a 3kg kit so there was nothing added to that, and it had the tang that my extract brews have, very confusing.

I used a half campden tablet for the first time when making the bitter but that didn't seem to help. I should also mention that I'm in Ireland so I'm definitely not fermenting at too high a temperature.

I've also used different yeasts for each batch.

I thought it might be coming from the bottling process, but the bitter I sampled last night before bottling tasted off, though I appreciate that it's not going to taste the best before conditioning anyway. I use Star san for sanitizing, supposed to be non-rinse, have people had any problems with it? I have a bottle drainer so there shouldn't be much residue left.

Would it be worth my while using bottled water to make a batch? Or is mineral water suitable at all for brewing? Also, I keep the bottles in a press in the kitchen while conditioning, should I move them to the shed or somewhere cooler?

 

[phettebs]

Hello Hayzer,
It sounds like you are doing everything right. It might be worth trying some bottled water just to see if it makes a diff. I bottle condition mine right in the kitchen where it's warm and then move them to the cooler basement after two weeks.

I also use StarSan and have no problems with it and definitely do not rinse.

Try going AG? :grin:

 

[hayzer]

Try going AG? :grin:

That may be the only option open to me, the last resort if that doesn't work it's back to the off licence!

I won't give up hope yet, will try bottled water for my next brew

 

[happyhoppytaff]

the day after starting this thread i had a tasting session with a friend. we tried a stout, a youngs, an edme and a geordie. the tang was detectable by me in all four beers but it was only very slight and i really had to look for it. it was easier to smell it.

my friend tried but could not work out what i meant. he said the stout tasted like stout, one bitter was 'thicker' than another, and one (the newly bottled one) was a bit cloudy - it was.

he couldnt smell or taste the tang i could.

i think it is me being hyper critical of my beer in some part. i want it to be perfect. nothing is perfect but my beer *is* beer. i guess i will have to be happy with that.

saying that, i will continue experimenting.

***i must add. my first brew was very tangy. it was residual cleaning products. now my sanitising and rinsing have improved and are beyond question.

 

[guyb]

I wonder if this is something to do with hyper sensitive palette? I only say this as THT and tang used to be something i got with white wine, no matter what I did - but the wife can't taste it at all. I sometimes get it with a shop bought bottle. White wine just tastes of campden tablets to me, and I don't use them at all!

Red wine is totally different, will be interesting when I bottle the Coopers Cerveza - perhaps we are our own worst critics?

Interestingly enough, I had a bottle of San Miguel last night whilst reading thru the forum, and I found myself thinking, hmm this tastes a bit yeasty etc - maybe the hyper critique comes with the hobby?

Interesting thread nonetheless

 

[hayzer]

I haven't done any more brews since but I tasted the IPA and Bitter mentioned above tonight, both about 3 weeks in the bottle. The IPA was great, no off flavours detected, but then the ridiculous amount of hops in it probably helped there. More hops in everything might be the answer

The bitter was a strange one, I couldn't figure out whether it had the tang or not. Was second-guessing myself as I drank it, I'm half afraid that I've become so used to it that I can't taste it anymore! Will try it again next week alongside some purchased bottles for comparison. Any excuse for a tasting session.

 

[anthonyUK]

As an experiment I would try either a one can 10l kit or a two can 23l kit that requires no additional sugar.
In my limited experience the 'twang' does not exist in these kits.

 

[BarnsleyBrewer]

Don't expect miracles though, I do wonder if what you are experiencing is THT (That 'Homebrew' Taste)? a

My mate started brewing from kits and brought me a bottle over to try, he was happy with it but the first thing I thought was "THT", not tasted it for years.... :sick:
You never forget what it's like.

BB

 

[happyhoppytaff]

drifting slightly off topic, maybe i should re-title the thread THT

the wise old home brew shop head told me yesterday that THT is due to the presence of invertase, created when sucrose is broken down to glucose.

i am going to try a brew with glucose and see what happens. the kilo bag of glucose in my local homebrew shop is cheaper than boots or holland and barrett. its 2.50/kilo

 

[Aleman]

the wise old home brew shop head told me yesterday that THT is due to the presence of invertase, created when sucrose is broken down to glucose.

What a load of bollocks!

 

[happyhoppytaff]

the wise old home brew shop head told me yesterday that THT is due to the presence of invertase, created when sucrose is broken down to glucose.

What a load of bollocks!

to the point. care to elucidate