Some of my brews turning sour

[LacriV]

Wow, that's a lot of work! Maybe I'll stick to mead in the future. Beer I can get in the shop as well, though homemade it would be massively cheaper.

As an update to my beer:
It now stood over night by the door but got a little too cold, so now the fermentation slowed down a lot. However, the sour smell is now also noticably weaker! The sugar wine now smells like sima, which it technically is, just without lemons.

I now set the fermenters a little further away from the door, let's hope I can find a sweet spot where the yeast thrives but the infection doesn't.

 

[Larse]

It's not really a lot of work. Since you've had a couple of infections, you can't trust your equipment, especially fermenters, siphons etc. So the first time, a proper intense cleaning regime is needed. After that, if you just do an immediate clean out (water and scrubbing brush), you don't need to do the intense clean and just add sanitiser and seal up.

The brew day stuff is pretty easy. Especially with the spray bottle. Just requires a bit of thought.

I've been brewing since my late teens. Never had an infection.

 

[LacriV]

It's not really a lot of work. Since you've had a couple of infections, you can't trust your equipment, especially fermenters, siphons etc. So the first time, a proper intense cleaning regime is needed. After that, if you just do an immediate clean out (water and scrubbing brush), you don't need to do the intense clean and just add sanitiser and seal up.

The brew day stuff is pretty easy. Especially with the spray bottle. Just requires a bit of thought.

I've been brewing since my late teens. Never had an infection.

Still, if you compare it to my meadmaking process where the only thing I sanitize is the bottles, it's a lot more effort.

 

[Larse]

Still, if you compare it to my meadmaking process where the only thing I sanitize is the bottles, it's a lot more effort.

I'm sure it is. Your decision as to whether it's worth it or not. But if you want to avoid the heartbreak of throwing out your beer, the work has to be done.

 

[LacriV]

I'm sure it is. Your decision as to whether it's worth it or not. But if you want to avoid the heartbreak of throwing out your beer, the work has to be done.

Yeah, I guess I'll have to see. At the moment I feel a bit demotivated, but maybe after a while I try it again.

Since I created an account now, I thought I might share some mead recipes on here. Do you think people would be interested?

 

[LacriV]

Update:
The fermentation is finally done and I bottled the beer! There was still a sour smell to it when I opened the fermenter, but the flavor seems unaffected. I guess it was some kind of fermentation smell after all, though definitly not one I'm used to.

There is a thin layer of white flaky stuff at the top, but it just smells and tastes like yeast so I think it's fine. The liquid itself was almost totally clear.

The temperature was very inconsistent and sometimes dropped below 8 degrees and the fermentation died down. Then once I moved it to a slightly warmer spot it started up again. The whole brewing process was very imprefect, so I guess I'll see if it turns out drinkable.

 

[MashBag]

I have come to this topic late.
I am a wine maker and win awards for mead. Beer is not massively different.

Here's some thoughts....

Your kit is most likely infected. Steam it. You don't need a cupboard full of chemicals to clean stuff but you do need to be "Eat off it" not "brain surgery" clean.

If you know what beer you like to drink from the shop, make that.
I doubt its kveik. It's most likely to be made with
Saccharomyces cerevisiae - Brewers yeast.
Humour me give it a go.
Temperature control is important to all fermentations. Yeast don't like going hot and cold, in any situation, just like you and me
Finally if you are using ANYTHING wooden .. Bowls, spoons or stirrers. Replace them. These carry infections sooo well and are very hard to cure.

You can make beer. Easily.. you just need to find your way. Mead is actually harder.

Ps. I this larse probably bleaches the entire house before he starts.. If that's your thing great, but it isn't mandatory and please don't be put off.

 

[LacriV]

Thanks for the advice!

I think I was already sanitizing my equipment at the level of "eat off it", so maybe I should go for a bit more than that. The main 5l fermenter will go in the dishwasher and most of the other stuff I washed with soap and hot water, so I'm hoping this takes care of any current infections.

I'm actually still not sure if it is an infection, could just be a weird yeast. The last beer which actually took on a sour flavour was definitely infected, but this one tastes fine now. Interestingly though, the sugar wine which I made with the same yeast did turn a little sour, so maybe it is an infection after all, and the cold fermentation successfully reduced it? I really don't know. I do know that I won't be using this yeast anymore, especially for beer.

The standard Kveik (not the one I used for this batch of beer) is in my experience actually really good for mead. It has a lower alcohol tolerance than most wine yeasts, so it's easy to get a sweet mead without any backsweetening or lactose. This special variant I originally also bought for mead, but then thought it might work well for an approximation of a lager because of it's large temperature range. Next time I'll stick to the correct style of yeast!

I'm sure beermaking gets easier once you get used to it, but isn't meadmaking a lot easier still? There's fewer variables to perfect and no mashing involved, you don't even need to heat up anything. The only downside is that it needs to be racked more often than beer.

As to the hot and cold, here in Finland we actually really like to sit in a sauna and then jump out into the snow to cool off, so maybe I've just made really Finnish beer!

 

[MashBag]

dishwasher and most of the other stuff I washed with soap and hot water, so I'm hoping

It won't. Vodka might.

As to the hot and cold, here in Finland we actually really like to sit in a sauna and then jump out into the snow to cool off, so maybe I've just made really Finnish beer!

Lol. The yeast doesn't.

 

[LacriV]

Vodka is way too expensive here to be used for cleaning, but I'll use some disinfectants if necessary. I have some non-rinse disinfectant, I think with oxygen in it, do you think that will be enough?

And yeah, I'll be happy if it's drinkable at all. Since I don't have a basement I would need a dedicated fridge to keep the beer at the correct temperature, right? Unfortunately I have neither budget nor space for that at the moment. Guess I'll have to stick to ale for now.

 

[MashBag]

We need to have 2 separate conversations about hygiene.

Firstly a thorough, though, deep clean to rid your kit of any infection potential. This is hard. Steam or TFR (caustic truck wash). Acid based chemicals are good, but not as thorough as caustic. Not oxygen based stuff either.

Second conversation is routine hygiene, needs to be good, but not excessive. The best plan is always to never let it get left dirty.

Temperature control. Everything you brew will be improved by good temperature control. It is a foundation stone of fermentation for anything.
I ferment all my stuff in an outbuilding. No brew fridge. I too dont have the space or the belief in a brew fridge. Simple cheap heater pads*, an inkbird to control it and a sleeping back wrapped around as insulation. Sorted. After 1000's of litres and numerous years / ideas / contraptions and testing.

*silicone heaters 2 x 60w wired in series. Search for "220v silicon heating" on ebay. From memory they are 15*10cm get the self adhesive ones. Less than 10GBP each. Brilliant things.

 

[LacriV]

Okay, makes sense. I'll disinfect everything before my next batch.

I do technically also have an outbuilding, but it does not have power or heating so in winter the temperature sometimes goes down to -30°C. Even if I lay an extension cable there, I doubt a small heating pad can keep up with such temperatures. The other options are inside by the door, where it gets very inconsistent, or just in room temperature. I just don't see an option for me too keep something at consistent lagering temperature for over a month.

 

[MashBag]

The point is not "outside" the point is if you have room for the fermenter, you have room for temperature control.
It really really makes a difference.
My brews are seven days and then bottled. You can also do lager type ales at 18/20°c

Good temp control help your yeast dominate potential infection. Quicker turnaround limits the exposure.
It makes a big difference.
Beer is much quicker than mead.
I think this might also not have helped you avoid infections.
You probably also fostered a good local bacteria micro-climate. So you need to be on your game.

 

[LacriV]

I might just get a heating mat and temperature controller, sounds like it's more important than I thought. Might also explain why my fermentations always take so long, even when using fast yeast.

Do you put the heating mat around the fermenter or underneath? And where does the probe go?

 

[MashBag]

You would be better with the pads, I suggested. Brew mats are typically a bit under powered. Particularly for your colder climes.

Temp is defo important.

Pleeeease. If you are going to do it. Do it properly else you will be disappointed and then say it didn't work.

Your choice of the words "temp controller" make me nervous too what are you thinking that isn't an inkbird

 

[LacriV]

Let's just, hypothetically, assume I don't know anything about heating systems...

What is the difference between a heating mat and a heating pad? And isn't Inkbird just a brand that makes temperature controllers? I'm assuming you mean devices like this:
https://inkbird.com/products/temperature-controller-itc-308?variant=41817445400752

 

[MashBag]

Good question. I see the difference as experience, research and testing. There is a lot of junk out there. That may or may not help solve the issues. I have tried to save you that cost/time/issues by being quite specific.

There is a quote something like.. "a smart person never makes the same mistake twice a wise person asks a smart person how he did it"

Your challenge is to find that quote from that jumble of words

 

[MashBag]

To answer specifics.

A. Yes inkbird 308

B. Most Brewing mats I have researched are typically underpowered @ 30-40w and some have pretty basic controls that don't work well.

The heat pads I suggest deliver 60w @ 220v at a low density. Ideal for 10-40l inside or out with insulation. They are also probably cheaper & better quality than brew mats.

 

[LacriV]

Okay, I think I found the correct thing now, they call them heating pillows in Finnish for some reason, but they look like orange rubber rectangles that you can wrap around stuff.

Do I put the temperature probe of the Inkbird in between the mat and carboy?