Using a steam cleaner to sanitise bottles

[gmc]

Hi all,

I have a bottling day today and would like to try to speed up the process with using steam to sanitise my bottles. They will already be clean at that point. I don't have a fast acting cleaner like Starsan, just the old fashioned stuff that takes at least 10 minutes contact time. x40 bottles, that takes a lot of time.

I have heard that the steam function of a dishwasher is sufficient but mine is too small for enough bottles to do a batch. I bought this steam cleaner for a different purpose,

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B08B8YLJ7J/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
It comes with a long plastic nozzel which looks perfect for the job. I don't see why it wouldn't work but I am very open to suggestions that its a bad idea if people think there is a chance I will ruin my batch. Here is a video of someone doing something similar which seems legit.



Thanks for any information you can provide

 

[Baz Chaz]

In view of the bottles already being clean, I would think that would be a good alternative, especially at that heat !

 

[Chippy_Tea]

A post from an old thread here -


I thought this would be an easier and and environmentally friendly way to sanitise and got quite revved up by the idea aftercall I had already got a high pressure steamer (Karcher) but the max heat I could get directly out of the nozzle was just over 90c. I placed the nozzle in an inverted bottle for 3 mins and could only get it up to about 80 degrees, I convinced myself that it wasn't hot enough for long enough and spending 3/4 hours on 40 bottles wasn't worth the time and effort.

I just found this on a food agency site "The Grade A Pasteurized Milk Ordinance specifies a minimum of 77°C (170°F) for 5 min. Other recommendations for processing operations are: 85°C (185°F) for 15 min., or 80°C (176°F) for 20 min"

I presume killing nasties off in milk would be similar heat requirement for sanitising bottles ?

Suppose it depends what type of steamer you have, to what temps it can get and how quick. It would be interesting to hear what others think.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Sanitising using your oven.


From our sister site - Sanitizing Beer Bottles In The Oven


Oven

Dry heat is less effective than steam for sanitising and sterilising, but many brewers use it. The best place to do dry heat sterilisation is in your oven. To sterilise an item, refer to the following table for temperatures and times required.

Dry Heat Sterilisation

Temperature
Duration

338°F (170°C)
60 minutes

320°F (160°C)
120 minutes

302°F (150°C)
150 minutes

284°F (140°C)
180 minutes

250°F (121°C)
12 hours (Overnight)


The times indicated begin when the item has reached the indicated temperature. Although the duration seem long, remember this process kills all microorganisms, not just most as in sanitising. To be sterilised, items need to be heat-proof at the given temperatures. Glass and metal items are prime candidates for heat sterilisation.

Some home-brewers bake their bottles using this method and thus always have a supply of clean sterile bottles. The opening of the bottle can be covered with a piece of aluminium foil prior to heating to prevent contamination after cooling and during storage. They will remain sterile indefinitely if kept wrapped.

One note of caution: bottles made of soda lime glass are much more susceptible to thermal shock and breakage than those made of borosilicate glass and should be heated and cooled slowly (e.g. 5 °F per minute). You can assume all beer bottles are made of soda lime glass and that any glassware that says Pyrex or Kimax is made of borosilicate.

 

[gmc]

A post from an old thread here -


I thought this would be an easier and and environmentally friendly way to sanitise and got quite revved up by the idea aftercall I had already got a high pressure steamer (Karcher) but the max heat I could get directly out of the nozzle was just over 90c. I placed the nozzle in an inverted bottle for 3 mins and could only get it up to about 80 degrees, I convinced myself that it wasn't hot enough for long enough and spending 3/4 hours on 40 bottles wasn't worth the time and effort.

I just found this on a food agency site "The Grade A Pasteurized Milk Ordinance specifies a minimum of 77°C (170°F) for 5 min. Other recommendations for processing operations are: 85°C (185°F) for 15 min., or 80°C (176°F) for 20 min"

I presume killing nasties off in milk would be similar heat requirement for sanitising bottles ?

Suppose it depends what type of steamer you have, to what temps it can get and how quick. It would be interesting to hear what others think.

This is making me think my steamer won't have enough power to do an adequate job. I have no idea of the temps it produces but I also don't have a thermometer for testing so I think that idea is maybe out of the question.

Thanks for this very accurate information.

Time to buy a fountain thingy, some chemsan and a bottle tree I fear!

 

[Chippy_Tea]

This is making me think my steamer won't have enough power to do an adequate job. I have no idea of the temps it produces but I also don't have a thermometer for testing so I think that idea is maybe out of the question.

Thanks for this very accurate information.

Time to buy a fountain thingy, some chemsan and a bottle tree I fear!

Does the oven idea not appeal?

A member here said ne only leaves them in for 40 minutes but i cannot remember the temperature.

 

[gmc]

It's tempting. The batch I am bottling today is in german style flip top bottles with have plastic tops on so it won't work for that. The next lot will be in regular reused commercial bottles, so I will be tempted to try it for that in a few weeks.

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

Although the duration seem long, remember this process kills all microorganisms, not just most as in sanitising.

Indeed... my understanding is that the extended time period is really the only way to kill certain highly resilient fungal spores like botulinus (although I'm not sure that's likely to be an issue in normal brewing).
Mind you, it's maybe not worth getting too hung up about it - after all, you're not going to sterilise the malt you're using and that's just going to be boiled at about 100ºC so...

 

[Chippy_Tea]

A member here said he only leaves them in for 40 minutes but i cannot remember the temperature.

It was dad_of_john -

@dad_of_jon
Mine only go in for 40 mins gas mark 6 (200c) to kill yeast, as starsan doesn't. starsan kills bacteria.

400 degrees F

200 degrees C

6

 

[Gerryjo]

It's tempting. The batch I am bottling today is in german style flip top bottles with have plastic tops on so it won't work for that. The next lot will be in regular reused commercial bottles, so I will be tempted to try it for that in a few weeks.

For the flip tops just remove the clasp lid and and place in boiling water for 15 mins as I do this with my own.
As for sanitising after washing I place mine in a trug which holds around 20 bottles then when finished place on a bottle tree.
I also have a steam cleaner which I use on my Fermenters and copper coil which does a great job also.

 

[gmc]

For the flip tops just remove the clasp lid and and place in boiling water for 15 mins as I do this with my own.
As for sanitising after washing I place mine in a trug which holds around 20 bottles then when finished place on a bottle tree.
I also have a steam cleaner which I use on my Fermenters and copper coil which does a great job also.

good point on the caps. I really should have thought of that

 

[Hanglow]

For next time, just get a foaming sanitiser and a spring loaded bottle washer and bottle tree.

I pissed about with other methods for a while including oven high temperature, overnight in oven at lower temperature, boiling water, dishwasher etc and it is far easier, cheaper and safer to use a sanitiser and bottle washer. Just rinse out any bottles well after you use them and store them dry and inverted.

Or do the more sensible thing and get kegs