Ulez expanded to include whole of outer London

[Chippy_Tea]

Considering the backlash against the ULEZ, typified by comments on here, how politically acceptable do you think an outright ban would be?

So dirty cars will continue to pollute the streets of London leading to more deaths because they are scared to do the right thing and ban them as it'll be unpopular with voters, you couldn't maker it up.

They have banned some cars the ones that are owned by people who cannot afford £250 a month to drive their dirty cars in London, Londoners that are wealthy enough to afford to pay can carry on poisoning other Londoners, how politically correct/acceptable is that.

 

[Rodcx500z]

As for your other point, just because you didn’t get cancer through smoking doesn’t mean smoking does not lead to a massively increased risk of cancer. I think it’s about 50% of smokers that die of cancer so I guess you are, so far, in the lucky half.

No British doctor has ever used the term cause of Death smoking, like a lot of things in life smoking is an individual choice the same as drinking as is driving. people who want to take away that choice because they think they are better and know all the answers are very dangerous individuals. trying to impose your will on the masses puts them in the same camp as some very nasty people over the last few hundred years

 

[Chippy_Tea]

You are conflating two things here. ULEZ is about reducing NOx and particulate pollution, the stuff that’s making many kids living in poorer neighbourhoods asthmatic and causing early deaths. This will have a minimum effect on CO2 induced global warming.

I never mentioned CO2 by pollution i meant the emissions that are causing premature deaths to Londoners, these cars should be banned not allowed in if you a wealthy enough to afford the £250 a month fee allowing you to do so!


To be ULEZ-compliant, your car must emit a sufficiently low level of exhaust pollutants. You can find out whether it meets the required standards by using the checker tool on the Transport for London website.

The requirements for ULEZ-compliance are based on European emissions standards, which set limits on the amount of various chemicals emitted from a car’s exhaust pipe. Those chemicals include nitrogen oxides (NOx) and particulate matter (or soot), which can cause serious respiratory problems like asthma.

‘Euro’ standards were first introduced in 1970 and have grown progressively stricter. Euro 6 standards are now in force with Euro 7 to be introduced in 2025. You can find your car’s Euro emissions standard on its V5C registration document.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

It’s not that bold. It happens all the time, like making fags £20 a packet reduces the amount of people smoking them.

It didn't stop them smoking all it did was force them to roll their own because they couldn't afford to buy them at £20 a pack also many moved to counterfeit ciggies which contained many dangerous chemicals that would never be allowed in ciggies for sale here, many also moved to Vaping which comes with its own health problems for users -



Popcorn lung and vaping. "Popcorn lung," or bronchiolitis obliterans (BO), refers to a type of inflammation in the lungs that causes wheezing, coughing, and shortness of breath. Over time, it can lead to scarring of the lungs' tiny air sacs, along with thickening and narrowing of the airways. A chemical called diacetyl, found in many e-cigarette flavors, is one cause of this condition. The name comes from reports of the illness due to diacetyl among workers in a microwave popcorn factory.

Other health risks of vaping​

The tragic and alarming cases of severe lung disease are clearly cause for concern. A number of other health effects are also worrisome:

Nicotine from vaping. Nicotine is highly addictive and can affect the developing brain, potentially harming teens and young adults. Even some "nicotine-free" e-cigarettes have been found to contain nicotine. Accidental exposure to liquid from e-cigarettes has caused acute nicotine poisoning in children and adults.

Vaping and smoking. Teens who vape are more likely to begin smoking cigarettes. Many young people who use e-cigarettes also smoke cigarettes.

Cancer risk and vaping. Some substances found in e-cigarette vapor have been linked to an increased risk of cancer. The aerosol that users inhale and exhale from e-cigarettes can expose both themselves and bystanders to harmful substances.

Other risks of vaping. Explosions and burns have been reported with e-cigarettes while recharging the devices, due to defective batteries. In addition, vaping during pregnancy could harm a developing fetus.

How vaping affects our overall health is uncertain. However, there appears to be ample evidence that vaping is not "95% less harmful than smoking" as some have claimed.

 

[stripeyjoe]

I never mentioned CO2 by pollution i meant the emissions that are causing premature deaths to Londoners, these cars should be banned not allowed in if you a wealthy enough to afford the £250 a month fee allowing you to do so!

But you were replying to a part of the thread that was about CO2 emissions. I think the people wealthy enough to pay £250 a month for their polluting car probably have a compliant car anyway, making it a bit of a moot point. You could buy my compliant car for less than 8 months of paying the ULEZ fee.

Next thing to be banned in populated areas will be wood burning stoves and open fires, again massive contributors to particulate pollution.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I think the people wealthy enough to pay £250 a month for their polluting car probably have a compliant car anyway, making it a bit of a moot point.

£250 is 20 days a month many wont drive every day but the daily charge will still mean many will not be able to afford to drive their cars, this should not be about whether you can or cannot afford to pay to drive your dirty car it should be about stopping those cars polluting the city, this is not about pollution its about money making i think the majority of people posting in this thread can see that.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Next thing to be banned in populated areas will be wood burning stoves and open fires, again massive contributors to particulate pollution.

That is already being discussed and is the reason i decided a few months ago not to get the multi fuel stove i was going to buy installed.

 

[stripeyjoe]

250 is 20 days a month many wont drive every day but the daily charge will still mean many will not be able to afford to drive their cars, this should not be about whether you can or cannot afford to pay to drive your dirty car it should be about stopping those cars polluting the city, this is not about pollution its about money making i think the majority of people posting in this thread can see that.

It is projected to only cover costs by 2027. It is about stopping polluting cars driving in the city, the current zone has reduced journeys in polluting cars by 60%

I would prefer a total ban on non-compliant vehicles, with fines equivalent to parking or bus lane violations. Maybe, now it in place, that could be the next phase, with a decent amount of notice for people to get a compliant vehicle.

Those who cannot afford to drive their polluting car can take advantage of the scrappage scheme, TFL will buy their polluting piece of 15 year old plus junk for £2000, probably a great deal more than its actual value. You can get an old Prius or other cheap compliant car for £2000.

This page addresses a few of the points in this thread

https://www.london.gov.uk/programme...ltra-low-emission-zone-ulez-london/ulez-facts

 

[Rodcx500z]

This debate can never be won so i have invested 1/2 a million in cotton wool, i heard a whisper if you wrap your self in it you will live a very trouble free life. right time for a beer

 

[stripeyjoe]

That is already being discussed and is the reason i decided a few months ago not to get the multi fuel stove i was going to buy installed.

It’s been obvious for well over a decade that wood burning stoves are no good for particulate pollution. Was the same with diesel, it was fairly common knowledge, or at least bleeding obvious, that they emit a ton of ****. You only need to drive behind an older diesel car and see the black plume of ***** that emerges every time they accelerate and enjoy the lovely smell of oil and carbon that comes through your air vents shortly afterwards.

 

[jof]

You only need to drive behind an older diesel car and see the black plume of ***** that emerges every time they accelerate and enjoy the lovely smell of oil and carbon that comes through your air vents shortly afterwards.

This is an important deterrent that can be deployed to prevent tailgating by delivery moped riders (and the occasional Tesla driver trying to push you exceed the speed limit)

 

[stripeyjoe]

No British doctor has ever used the term cause of Death smoking

Cancer on the other hand... For decades the tobacco industry sold a pack of lies about there being no link between smoking and cancer, in a similar manner the oil industry has been selling a pack of lies about there being no link between rising CO2 levels and global warming.
Yes, people are free to make their own choice but that choice should be made after having all the facts available and not skewed by companies hiding the facts.

 

[Bosch]

Cancer on the other hand... For decades the tobacco industry sold a pack of lies about there being no link between smoking and cancer, in a similar manner the oil industry has been selling a pack of lies about there being no link between rising CO2 levels and global warming.
Yes, people are free to make their own choice but that choice should be made after having all the facts available and not skewed by companies hiding the facts.

My father died at 58, cause of death Lung cancer (he also had emphysema).
Cigarettes were definitely the main cause

 

[Benfleet Brewery]

For those who still don’t think this is just a money making scheme, perhaps you could justify how the extremely popular Chessington World of Adventures, which attracted more than 1.5million visitors last year, managed to amazingly fall just inside the new ULEZ zone?!

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Thanks for posting that BB, as i said in an earlier post you couldn't make it up

 

[pilgrimhudd]

I think the animals deserve clean air too.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I think the animals deserve clean air too.

I think animals deserve to live in the wild not big cages but that's another discussion.

 

[Rodcx500z]

Looks like Chessington will soon be closed, i am more worried about how much sh-t is going in our waterways. if they planned all these ulez's why have they made all the motorways wider and who made all the money

 

[Northern_Brewer]

For those who still don’t think this is just a money making scheme, perhaps you could justify how the extremely popular Chessington World of Adventures, which attracted more than 1.5million visitors last year, managed to amazingly fall just inside the new ULEZ zone?!

View attachment 89474

Because it's in Greater London - the borough of Kingston on Thames to be precise. Whereas Esher and Epsom fall in Surrey - I don't know the history but there's a really obvious chunk out of the northern Surrey border that falls in Kingston (and hence London), which happens to include Chessington.

Nothing more complicated than that - why do you feel the need to find conspiracies everywhere?

As for woodburners, they've really tightened up the rules lately, on both the burners and fuel - which means new installations are pretty much banned in London. And a good job too because they are horrendous for particulate pollution - fine for remote places in the country, but not in a city of 10 million.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Looks like Chessington will soon be closed,

Why? You do realise we're talking about <10% of all cars here? It's the equivalent of saying all Audi drivers have to pay a supplement to go into an area.