The Mixed Fermentation Thread

[BeerCat]

I'm not certain but I think they use a different bottling yeast.

Thanks I will wait until i get my order from MM then. Have some WLP644, WLP650 and sour batch kidz on the way. The plan is to do a pale fermented with wlp644 then add wlp650 and lacto. Use the sour batch for a red beer.

 

[strange-steve]

WLP644 has been on my to-do list for a while and I keep getting distracted with other things, look forward to hearing your results.

 

[Sadfield]

If you've not been lucky enough to tour the Pajottenland and visit the Lambic breweries, here's a nice film about Lambic, that can be rented via Vimeo for £2, that will show you what you're missing. Lambic Film

 

[geigercntr]

If you've not been lucky enough to tour the Pajottenland and visit the Lambic breweries, here's a nice film about Lambic, that can be rented via Vimeo for £2, that will show you what you're missing. Lambic Film

That film is on my to do list. Worth checking out then?

This is a nice half hour dip into that world too:

 

[strange-steve]

After a lot of to-ing and fro-ing with the idea of a bretted stout, with the help from forum members, I've decided to leave that until I get some brett C. So in the meantime I'll be brewing this quad thing and adding the brett B to it. It's loosely based on a Pannepot Gran Reserva recipe from CSi, so there's a little bit of roastiness form the carafa. I've just made the candi syrup, 500g of white beet sugar boiled for an hour with a little lemon juice, and I've got the first starter step on the stir plate now for brewing on Wednesday.

Bretted Quad

Recipe Specs
----------------
Batch Size (L): 20.0
Original Gravity (OG): 1.091
Final Gravity (FG): 1.014
Alcohol by Volume (ABV): 10.1 %
Colour (SRM): 31
Bitterness (IBU): 30

Grain Bill
----------------
5.55 kg Belgian - Pilsner (70%)
0.50 kg German - Wheat Malt (6%)
0.45 kg German - CaraMunich I (6%)
0.20 kg German - De-Husked Caraf II (2.5%)
Boil additions:
0.75 kg Belgian Candi Syrup - Dark (9.5%)
0.50 kg Cane Sugar (6%)

Hop Bill
----------------
15 g Zeus (15.3% AA) @ 60 Minutes
35 g Hallertau Mittelfruh (4.3% AA) @ 30 Minutes

Notes
----------------
Single step Infusion at 65°C for 75 Minutes
Fermented with Abbey Ale Yeast WLP530
Pitch at 18°C and ramp up to 25°C over 1 week then rack to secondary and add brett b and leave for 8 weeks

 

[BeerCat]

That film is on my to do list. Worth checking out then?

This is a nice half hour dip into that world too:

Saw that the other day. Just wished it was longer. Great film, very inspiring.

 

[samale]

Hi I was looking at dipping my toes into using Brett. I was looking at using WLP670. The plan is to brew a Brett saisons and maybe a dark winter saison. Has anyone one experience using this yeast, I have read somewhere that it is a good starter point for using Brett. Or would I be better buying two separate yeast, a saison and a Brett.

 

[Sadfield]

Hi I was looking at dipping my toes into using Brett. I was looking at using WLP670. The plan is to brew a Brett saisons and maybe a dark winter saison. Has anyone one experience using this yeast, I have read somewhere that it is a good starter point for using Brett. Or would I be better buying two separate yeast, a saison and a Brett.

Use it as it is, it's a blend of Brettanomyces and saccharomyces. And a very nice one at that.

 

[strange-steve]

Bretted Quad

Recipe Specs
----------------
Batch Size (L): 20.0
Original Gravity (OG): 1.091
Final Gravity (FG): 1.014
Alcohol by Volume (ABV): 10.1 %
Colour (SRM): 31
Bitterness (IBU): 30

Grain Bill
----------------
5.55 kg Belgian - Pilsner (70%)
0.50 kg German - Wheat Malt (6%)
0.45 kg German - CaraMunich I (6%)
0.20 kg German - De-Husked Caraf II (2.5%)
Boil additions:
0.75 kg Belgian Candi Syrup - Dark (9.5%)
0.50 kg Cane Sugar (6%)

Hop Bill
----------------
15 g Zeus (15.3% AA) @ 60 Minutes
35 g Hallertau Mittelfruh (4.3% AA) @ 30 Minutes

Notes
----------------
Single step Infusion at 65°C for 75 Minutes
Fermented with Abbey Ale Yeast WLP530
Pitch at 18°C and ramp up to 25°C over 1 week then rack to secondary and add brett b and leave for 8 weeks

Well primary fermentation with this is one of the most vigorous fermentations I've ever seen. The FV had 8L of head space and it was still pouring out the top. Today, a week after pitching there's still a huge krausen on it so I'll leave another couple of days before racking and pitching the brett.

 

[strange-steve]

A further update on my wild yeast experiment. The second starters fermented out and dropped mostly clear on both of them, and there are no signs of mould at all, so I poured off most of the starter medium and added the sediment to fresh jars with a 5% alcohol solution (water and vodka) in order to get rid of any alcohol intolerant strains. I also sampled the beers, but stupidly forgot to take pH readings:

Hy1
SG 1.005
Aroma
Still incredibly fruity, tinned orange and peach, just a hint of clove.
Flavour
A little acidity up front, but otherwise surprisingly clean and a little boring, but leaves a very bitter finish.

Lv1
SG 1.006
Aroma
Pepper and clove phenols with a nice soft fruitiness, very weizen-like.
Flavour
Again lots of phenols, with a very dry, bitter finish. Not unpleasant, but the phenols are just verging on medicinal. Tastes like beer.

I'm happy to see the attenuation is much higher this time so I'll leave them a day or two then add them to another fresh starter wort. I'm not going to add hops this time just to see if that's the cause of the bitterness, even though I only added a couple of pellets. After that then maybe a 1L test brew with them.

 

[BeerCat]

This is a 6 month old raw lambic. I wish i had added more hops as its soured really fast and appears to have finished. Its ok but lacking complexity/funk. I might oak it and dry hop then bottle it to free up the fermenter. Had a small pellicle in the Youngs wine fermenter, no oxidisation.
View attachment 26869

 

[strange-steve]

I racked my quad to secondary and pitched the brett this morning, gravity has dropped from 1.093 to 1.020 meaning currently 9.6% abv and 77% attenuation.

Taste test is very promising, like caramelised bananas, and no hot alcohol

 

[BeerCat]

Yesterday was my first attempt at a fast modern and funky sour. Instructions here

I made a 1039 wort from3.5kg maris otter and 1kg wheat and pitched WLP644 and a 1l starter of WLP650 and some amylase. Lacto is meant to be pitched today but i am going to leave it a while to minimize souring. The brett starter tasted fantastic, loads of flavour. the plan is to dry hop/hop tea and bottle at about 3 weeks with more brett. It should be stable as the amylase will bring the gravity down to 1000.

 

[Leon103]

Just seen this advertised.

https://www.geterbrewed.com/wildbrew-philly-sour-lallemand-yeast/

 

[Ajhutch]

I’ve heard about that yeast that produces lactic acid, there’s been a fair few posts about it on Milk The Funk. I’d be keen to have a go with it as I’m not sure I have the equipment for kettle souring, but that sounds like it could produce a similar result.

 

[dad_of_jon]

This is a 6 month old raw lambic. I wish i had added more hops as its soured really fast and appears to have finished. Its ok but lacking complexity/funk. I might oak it and dry hop then bottle it to free up the fermenter. Had a small pellicle in the Youngs wine fermenter, no oxidisation.
View attachment 26869View attachment 27043

beautiful golden syrup colour.

 

[samale]

I currently have a starter on the go of WLP 670 farmhouse Saison blend. The starter smells great, nice fruit aroma of it. My plan is do to do a winter Saison and age it for around 12 weeks to get the Brett character. My question is can I use this blend to brew a regular Saison, bottle after two weeks so the Brett character is not present and drink it young. Or will the Brett still continue in the bottle leaving the beer over carbonated. Any advice would be appreciated

 

[Sadfield]

This is a 6 month old raw lambic. I wish i had added more hops as its soured really fast and appears to have finished. Its ok but lacking complexity/funk. I might oak it and dry hop then bottle it to free up the fermenter. Had a small pellicle in the Youngs wine fermenter, no oxidisation.
View attachment 26869View attachment 27043

It hasn't soured too quickly, around 6 months is typical for a lambic to drop in pH. And to be honest, nor is it done*. What makes a lambic is the ageing in wood, that is where the complexity and funk develops, and from a flavour perspective the sourness smooths out. It needs to go through a "sick" phase where it turns ropey. Good lambic needs three years in the barrel. I've tasted one year old lambic straight from the vat at both Hanssens and Drie Fontainenen and they were both pretty crude.

*Or it is if you want a perfectly drinkable sour beer. Sour beers can be made pretty quickly with good results, but lambic and gueuze is something that can't be replicated on a short timeframe.

 

[strange-steve]

I've tasted one year old lambic straight from the vat at both Hanssens and Drie Fontainenen and they were both pretty crude.

Likewise the straight 1yo lambic from Cantillon, it's a little rough around the edges.

 

[BeerCat]

@Sadfield So can i long term bottle condition instead of bulk? If long term i would like to rebrew it with the proper amount of hops and save some to blend. I will have to watch that film you linked but i am worried i may end up buying loads of barrels. Such an interesting subject i have been scouring youtube for videos. Thanks for your help mate