Sterilisation

[Awfers]

My sanitation schedule includes:

A rinse after each use.

A two hour soak in bleach solution (cold water) before draining and putting into crates.

And on bottling day: rinse and soak bottle tree and bottles in Oxi Clean solution (warm water).

Never an infection yet.

 

[graysalchemy]

My sanitation schedule includes:

A rinse after each use.

A two hour soak in bleach solution (cold water) before draining and putting into crates.

And on bottling day: rinse and soak bottle tree and bottles in Oxi Clean solution (warm water).

Never an infection yet.

But you are not actually sanitising prior to bottling, oxiclean does not sanitise it only cleans. You would be better using bleach and a rinse immediately prior to bottling.

 

[anthonyUK]

Oh. Is my miltons 'slap-dash'? Tis for sterilising ........... not intended for brewing though. I do want 'best practice' :geek:

I would think it as good as anything else -

Proctor & Gamble Milton Disinfecting Liquid is an unperfumed, foodsafe, fluid which is suitable for use on work surfaces, floors, walls and utensils. The solution kills 99.999% of bacteria, and does not require rinsing after use. Milton can also be used for the hygenic cleaning of fruit and vegetables using the correct dosage.

 

[graysalchemy]

But milton as has been discussed at length is still a chlorine based disinfectant and as such does need to be rinsed if you are using it for beer, so in that respect no it is not no rinse.

 

[anthonyUK]

Yeah sorry. I should have clarified it is not 'no rinse' for brewing but an effective sanitiser and as long as you follow the recommended dosages and rinse properly no worse than others.
I would say though that as a chlorine based sanitiser it could be more expensive than a simple 'basics range' thin bleach which would be as effective.

 

[graysalchemy]

:thumb: :thumb:

 

[morethanworts]

Biggest problem I read on a Milton bottle was that it needed something like 15 mins contact time, unless you use it differently in brewing somehow. (?) A minute or two in Star San and you're done.

 

[anthonyUK]

Biggest problem I read on a Milton bottle was that it needed something like 15 mins contact time, unless you use it differently in brewing somehow. (?) A minute or two in Star San and you're done.

I thought Starsan was also 15 mins contact time??

I don't leave it that long and never had problems so 2 mins is probably right.

 

[Robbo]

When my DJ's and Fermenting Tubs are not in use, I clean with boiling water first then pour a little sulphite solution into them and fit airlocks. They just need a little rinse out when I come to use them again.......never had an infection yet.....touch wood :pray:

 

[StevieDS]

According to the Info sheet on Star San from the Five Star website, as long as the object to be sanitized is wet for at least 1 minute it will be effective :thumb:

 

[mcc111]

One that I've not seen much of on here is Chemipro Oxi. I was sold this by my local homebrew shop as a no rinse steriliser. From the limited amount of information I've found on forums, it's possible it is neither no-rinse nor steriliser.

And I'm going to ask this stupid question, against my better judgement ...As a new brewer, how do I tell whether a beer is off as opposed to young or poor quality? Are there certain tastes I'm looking for as a giveaway?

 

[StevieDS]

I found this really helpful, regarding off-flavours and what to look for http://www.howtobrew.com/section4/chapter21-2.html

 

[mcc111]

Favourited :thumb:

 

[cask is best]

I use a steam bullet. 20 seconds of hot steam in the bottles and they get that hot you have to hold them with oven gloves. Been using it a year now cost 40 sheets. Now you tell me any nasties can survive that Had no ill effects yet.

Mold spores will laugh at that, but presumably your bottles are already scrubbed clean in which case you're fine.

If you keep the bottles clean, then it's easy whichever method you use. My method is to give them a hot rinse in the dishwasher and put them in the oven at 120c for 20 minutes and leave to cool. Not only does that kill everything, it leaves the bottles nice and dry with no water lying around the kitchen for the missus to moan about.

Yes my bottles go in the disheasher straight after use when they come out if clean they go into storage for next time. If they have stains inside they get filled with water and a drop of bleech in them then after 24 hours go back in the dishwasher then into storage, so yes they are clean when i brew so 20 seconds of very hot steam is enough to kill anything and everything with the nozzle inside the bottle i can tell you they get very very hot nothing could live in that.

I'm reading this thread with great intrest. Your own method of putting bottles in the oven for 20 minutes must say iv never heard that before. Some posters just give a rinse with hot water Winelight bottled a full batch of coopers stout with no ill effects. Must say I'm not that brave.

I suppose we all have tried and trusted methods. The reason i bought a steam bullet was to cut down on the tedious job of filling each bottle rinsing waiting etc i can get all my bottles done in less than half the time saves time and money. As i say since buying it never had a bad batch so i will be sticking with it. It was a gamble as i did not know if i could get away with it after reading all the posts about sanitise and sterilise i was frightened to death so thought ill get one and see what the outcome is.

It just goes to show maybe we live in a too sterile world and the process of sanitising, sterilising call it what you will is maybe not necassary. Maybe it's the big coparate industries that brain wash us to keep buying their products.


Happy brewing
:

 

[Aleman]

o 20 seconds of very hot steam is enough to kill anything and everything with the nozzle inside the bottle i can tell you they get very very hot nothing could live in that.

I'm going to challenge that. The medical autoclaves use steam at 15psi for 15 minutes to sterilise equipment, which is a temperature of 121C throughout the equipment when it is in use. I doubt that your steam bullet/wand will get anywhere near that temperature uniformly throughout the entire bottle especially for only 20 seconds. Bacterial spores are well capable of surviving 130c for 20 seconds . . . Which is why is 121C for 15 Minutes.

As for nothing living when it gets very very hot, there is a very large community of organisims living at high temperature around hydrothermal vents (60C to 464C), mainly living on the chemosynthetic bacteria which thrive in such conditions.

I use steam to sanitise my BMF plate chiller as I can't get it in the pressure cooker . . . but that is steam at 5psi for 45 minutes.

 

[graysalchemy]

I usually put the Fv over the top of my boiler for the last 15 minutes and then spray with videne as well. Any other time I fill up a kettle open the lid and boil it away for 5-10 minutes but again then sanitise with Videne as well.

But even after all that I do sometimes pick up infections, the blue penicillin mould growing on the yeast scum being the last one, though i would suggest that this was airbourne from my attempts of cheese making. :lol:

 

[cask is best]

haven't a clue what temp it reaches. To take the bacteria and nasties you have mentioned im surprised chemical powders or bleech would get rid of them. All im saying is that posters on here have different methods mine i belive nothing could survive hot steam been blasted into clean bottles .
Its quite obvious the germs you mention are very few and far between otherwise dozens of us on here who do not sanitise the way the big monopoly chemical companies want us to are doing it wrong.
I say what works , works.My way works and there is no need to fanny about like the brewers do not.Not one bad batch so i must be doing somthing right rather than doing somthing wrong

 

[cask is best]

please excuse if my post gets confusing near the bottom. Its a bugger typing on phone
esp when it hasnt been sanitised properly.

only joking

happy brewing

 

[adomant]

A lot of it is down to the law of averages and your personal appetite for risk, it could be possible that someone who has never sanitised bottles has never had a problem and conversely that someone who meticulously sanitises does encounter a problem.

I am laid up after a knee op the other week (hence why I'm posting a lot lately), if the surgeon had said "I normally just give the instruments a good wash, never had a problem yet" I would not have taken the risk.

What I have found is that the risk appetite for those who have never had a problem is more than those that have.

My awareness of sanitisation and sterilisation and different log kill factors soon improved a lot after a microbe once spoiled a batch of beer. It was a case of "know your enemy" and how to kill it, it's family and friends.

 

[graysalchemy]

it could be possible that someone who has never sanitised bottles has never had a problem and conversely that someone who meticulously sanitises does encounter a problem.

Probably more to the point that they don't realise they have a problem as that is what they are used to.