Starsan water suitability

[captain wassname]

The OP asked what "sort of" water could be used with starsan. He recieved three answers which all seem sensible.
I do not doubt that if you test PH levels of the solution it will tell you when it is nackered.The point I am making is that if you mix with,in my case Ashbeck, then when it turns cloudy its finished.
Without doing detailed cost analysis I couldnt be sure which way to go, but I can say for sure a 5 litre bottle of ashbeck/starsun mix will last months,maybe longer,depending of weather you bottle or keg.

Jim

 

[mabrungard]

StarSan reacts with calcium in water and forms the cloudiness. The issue of excessive alkalinity in the water only means that additional StarSan is required to produce the necessary low pH, so you don't HAVE to use very low alkalinity water.

To solve both problems (Ca and alkalinity), using RO or distilled water to prepare the solution is ideal. To solve only the clouding problem, you can use ion-exchange softened water since the Ca has been removed from that water. I have used RO or ion-exchange softened water to prepare the solution and it will last for months with no clouding. Hard water is not our friend when it comes to this product.

 

[Dr Mike]

That is interesting.

I had read somewhere that the cloudiness was caused by CO2 bubbles (ie reaction with the Carbonate alkalinity) but, come to think of it, the cloudiness never goes away, which it would if it was gas bubbles, so it must be forming a salt with the Calcium.

If you have to use >300ppm to compensate alkaline water, I suppose that means you have to rinse ? (that is what the instruction seem to imply)

 

[EskiBrew]

so it must be forming a salt with the Calcium.

Correct, it is.

 

[morethanworts]

I don't think Star San go as far as saying that the solution turns cloudy above pH 3.5 (specifically), which would be a handy indicator if it did. Hardness (calcium/magnesium) and pH are not the same thing, so I guess the only guide is still to test the pH (?)

 

[pittsy]

why all the fuss , 2.5 litre of di ionised water from asda for £1.25 (ish) job done and never in doubt as to it working . :)

 

[morethanworts]

pH paper and colour chart - from eBay 99p including postage!

 

[brewtim]

Water out of a dehumidifier? Any good for Starsan?

If so I'd better start racking it !

 

[mabrungard]

Water out of a dehumidifier? Any good for Starsan?

If so I'd better start racking it !

That is brilliant.

 

[Swazi]

Right... the best water to use is RO water as it has an alkalinity = 0. The reason why this is important and why some water is better suited to use with starsan than others is that starsan works by acidifying the water that you add it to. It's this acidity (low pH) that kills bacteria but is not harmful to yeast (at the right dilution). Now alkalinity is just a measure of waters ability to neutralize acid. If you have water with high alkalinity, it will neutralize the acid (starsan) and if it's high enough your sanitizer solution (starsan mixed with water) will not be acidic enough to effectively kill bacteria, therefore rendering it useless. The only sure way to test if your sanitizers effectiveness is to make sure its pH is below the recommended level (pH 3). My guess is that you could use starsan with any water you like but the dilution rate would have to increase relative to the alkalinity to overcome the waters ability to neutralize the acid.

 

[brewtim]

The only sure way to test if your sanitizers effectiveness is to make sure its pH is below the recommended level (pH 3). My guess is that you could use starsan with any water you like but the dilution rate would have to increase relative to the alkalinity to overcome the waters ability to neutralize the acid.

So the recommended dilution is 1.6ml per litre. If PH is below 3 at this dilution, then sanitisation is working at the recommended dilution, so no worries about anything.

Only if you need to increase the concentration to get below PH3 do you need to worry about the strength of the solution possibly killing yeast etc?

And cloudiness is not a good enough indicator of anything in particular?

 

[Buster]

If we are talking about a NO RINSE solution then it has to be 300ppm, which means that any water you use has to be of a low enough ph to attain a level of 3 or lower for Star San to be 100% affective as a no rinse. Going by that equation, if your water has a high ph level you would need to increase the ammount of Star San to achieve its affectiveness thus making it higher than 300ppm and no more a NO RINSE solution. Is that correct, because this is how I have used Star San for the last 2 years as a no rinse solution using Ashbeck Water from Tesco.

 

[brewtim]

If we are talking about a NO RINSE solution then it has to be 300ppm, which means that any water you use has to be of a low enough ph to attain a level of 3 or lower for Star San to be 100% affective as a no rinse. Going by that equation, if your water has a high ph level you would need to increase the ammount of Star San to achieve its affectiveness thus making it higher than 300ppm and no more a NO RINSE solution. Is that correct, because this is how I have used Star San for the last 2 years as a no rinse solution using Ashbeck Water from Tesco.

The logic sounds correct to me :thumb:

It may defeat the object of using Starsan if you had to rinse, as you could be introducing bacteria again with whatever you are rinsing it with, so it really is only effective as a no-rinse sanitiser as long as you don't rinse. So rather than increasing the dose of Starsan, could you treat the water to get the correct PH before adding Starsan?

Isn't most tap water in the UK within PH range for Starsan anyway?

 

[dennisking]

Isn't most tap water in the UK within PH range for Starsan anyway?

My PH is over 6.

 

[Dr Mike]

The important pH is that of the 300ppm Star San solution. I don't think this is easy to predict based on the water pH. Even if your water has a pH over 6, the StarSan solution may (or may not) be in range.

 

[dennisking]

As I said near the start of the thread I use Ashbeck, never had any problems and re-use it time and time again. Check the PH regular and change before it falls below 3.

 

[Buster]

#1 with Dennis, I do the same.

 

[Dr Mike]

For 'instant use & dispose' I just use my tap water (mildly alkaline). For solution to be stored (spray bottle) I use DI.

I probably should test the pH of my tap water based solution although I'm not sure indicator strips would be much use to me as I am quite colour-blind in red/green.

Seems to work fine (touch wood)

 

[brewtim]

My tap water is PH7 and my starsan solution when dosed with 1.6ml/litre is PH2.5 (and cloudy), maybe water at PH7.5 and above would not be suitable.

 

[captain wassname]

300 ppm is 0.3 ml per litre not 1.6ml per litre.

Jim