Splitting yeast

[periolus]

I am thinking of trying White Labs WLP775 cider yeast for the first time. Can I use this splitting method to make 5 smaller lots? I want to make 1 gallon batches at a time, you see! Awkward me.

So - I empty this into 2L of cooled boiled water, add 450g spraymalt, let it do the wild thing for how long? And then divide 6 ways in little bottles. I pour off the existing liquid and replace with cooled boiled water again for storage. Is that right?

 

[Aleman]

What I would do is not bother splitting it from a starter . . . and just make a 1 gallon batch of cider with the WLP775. Then add 1L of cooled boiled water to the slurry and split it out 8 ways into 250ml bottles.

Don't use spray malt for a 'Cider' yeast

 

[Tony]

There's some great info here - thanks to all who have contributed. For me this weekend, it's all rather academic. The supplier was out of the yeast I wanted and when I called (a few days after placing the order) had still not made the order from his supplier. Ain't going to arrive in time for a weekend brew!

****.

 

[periolus]

I will second Tony on that - thank you for all the useful info. Just out of interest, what's the issue with spray malt and cider yeast? Is the malt just too overpowering in flavour, or does it rush the yeast in some way?

I ordered WLP775 this morning! Very excited about it too

 

[Aleman]

Just out of interest, what's the issue with spray malt and cider yeast? Is the malt just too overpowering in flavour, or does it rush the yeast in some way?

Cider yeast has evolved to ferment fruit sugars . . . not malt sugars . . . having said that it's just a switch on the genome to turn on the enzyme production to ferment the malt sugars, so yes the yeast will ferment the sugar . ..but you contaminate the yeast with malt extract and the flavours for that . . . which you then add to your cider . . . even if you do wash it.

Also consider the cost . . . 450g of spraymalt costs what? 3 quid . . . 4 Litres of Apple Juice from Morrisons costs ?? 1.50 . . .plus you get a drinkable end product . . plus you use a starter that is appropriate to the amount of yeast you are pitching.

Consider you are pitching 50Billion cells into 1L of wort . . . the yeast will yeast up all the sugar and reproduce about 0.3 times . . .so you have 63Billion cells . . . Pitched into a 5L starter the yeast will reproduce 1.3 times that's 113Billion cells . . . which is worthwhile in terms of time and investment. So you can see that small starters for smack packs and tubes really are a waste of time . . . much more important for growing from single cells or slats etc.

 

[robsan77]

Sorry to jump in but was hoping you could help Aleman.

As I now have access to the local micro, I can get endless supplies of nottingham yeast slurry. How much pure slurry do I need for a 23l batch?

 

[jamesb]

For what gravity Rob?

About 100ml for 1045 ale. Have a look here.

Depending on the micro, it might not be pure yeast slurry. There could be a lot of cold break material in there too. Best thing to do is try and get slurry from the middle of the layer of yeast. Easier said than done.

Dave Porter sells a tray to do this. For a very reasonable 130 quid! :shock:

 

[pjbiker]

robsan,

When I've used yeast from a microbrewery, it's been skimmed off from the fermenting head, midway through the fermentation when it's less 'fluffy' and more dense. (This is what the brewery uses to re pitch the next brew). If I remember rightly he uses 2kg per 4.5 BBL brew, so scaled down to my 10 gallon brews thats about 110-120g I'd need. (though it will still ferment with less, or indeed more and may take longer/change the taste)

I use to save the slurry in jars in the fridge but had a few contamination issues and more recently have been using packets of Nottingham.

Interesting to know Evanvine has frozen batches and still successfully re-used it, I expect it loses some viability so a starter would be advisable I suppose.

 

[gurtpint]

Trying to get to the bottom finally... OK, let's assume I've made a 5 liter starter with the yeast, fermented that for 5 days or so and then split the yeast 4 or 6 ways in separate bottles. When I use one of these bottles to make a starter for my actual brew, how big starter should I do next? 500ml? 1 liter? 2 liters? Cheers!

 

[Aleman]

Trying to get to the bottom finally... OK, let's assume I've made a 5 liter starter with the yeast, fermented that for 5 days or so and then split the yeast 4 or 6 ways in separate bottles. When I use one of these bottles to make a starter for my actual brew, how big starter should I do next? 500ml? 1 liter? 2 liters? Cheers!

5 Litres!!!

 

[gurtpint]

Trying to get to the bottom finally... OK, let's assume I've made a 5 liter starter with the yeast, fermented that for 5 days or so and then split the yeast 4 or 6 ways in separate bottles. When I use one of these bottles to make a starter for my actual brew, how big starter should I do next? 500ml? 1 liter? 2 liters? Cheers!

5 Litres!!!

I'm starting to see a pattern here. Hammer it in, kind sir... Cheers Aleman!

PS. Dear potential fellow splitters, found Erlenmeyer flasks here for a pretty good price: http://morebeer.com/view_product/7955/1 ... sk_5000_mL
Haven't asked about the postage yet, but might just order one soon.

 

[dennisking]

Trying to get to the bottom finally... OK, let's assume I've made a 5 liter starter with the yeast, fermented that for 5 days or so and then split the yeast 4 or 6 ways in separate bottles. When I use one of these bottles to make a starter for my actual brew, how big starter should I do next? 500ml? 1 liter? 2 liters? Cheers!

5 Litres!!!

I`ve always restarted with a 1lt started, never had a problem, plenty of life.

 

[Tony]

found Erlenmeyer flasks here for a pretty good price

I popped down to the science faculty and managed to acquire a few 250ml conical flasks

No 500ml ones in stock at the moment but I'm awaiting delivery - and also of some 150ml plastic bottles with caps

No postage either :whistle:

 

[gurtpint]

^ Perhaps I should don my balaclava and go for a nocturnal raid in the local uni's science department... How much were the flasks you got? I thinks I'll be using plastic carbonated mineral water bottles for my batch. But where's my parcel w/the yeastie beasties? I'm getting restless as I witness the merciless oatmeal stout machine rolling onwards here.

 

[ChrisG]

I use dried yeast and was thinking of taking the next step and using liquid yeast.

How many times do you think you would be able to split the yeast before its quality reduces?

 

[periolus]

Can I just check I'm not missing something? I have a Turbo Cider on the go with White Labs WLP775. When it is finished I was going to syphon off my cider and as much of the liquid as possible without losing too much yeast. Then, I was going to top up to around 1L, shake it up to get it all mixed and then decant 5 starter samples of around 200ml each into some conical flasks. Should I then be doing something with these before storing in the fridge, or can I just add a bit of sugar and warm them up when I am actually looking to pitch into my next brew?

 

[rickthebrew]

A bit of searching on the net came up with this (pretty good - i think) explanation of splitting yeast, take a look and seeif this is how you do / or would split a yeast.

http://uk-homebrew.tripod.com/id45.html

I`m giving it a go tonight but will split into 6 with half the spaymalt and water :thumb:

 

[Aleman]

Should I then be doing something with these before storing in the fridge, or can I just add a bit of sugar and warm them up when I am actually looking to pitch into my next brew?

No that would be fine, Just store them in the fridge as usual . . .but never, but never!!! use sugar in a starter!!!!!. When ready to use just bring one out of the fridge, allow it to warm up . . . tip off the liquid, and add some apple juice (it is cider you are making) . . . when its working . . . pitch into the FV

Edit :That Link is a cracking how to split a Wyeast . . . I wouldn't do it that way, but I do have a lot of lab equipment which makes life easier in many ways . . . but as long as you are scrupulous about cleanliness then it'll work well.

Of course one way of storing yeast for a long time is in bottled beer. . .Just run off from the fv into some 250ml bottles picking up a bit of the yeast sediment. The follow the how to recover yeast from a bottled beer on here when you want to re use it.

 

[ChrisG]

Horden Hillbillys site is the best around.....taught me so much!

Cheers Dave!

Chris

 

[rickthebrew]

Horden Hillbillys site is the best around.....taught me so much!

Cheers Dave!

Chris

There is some great info on his site :thumb: You`ve some nice recipes on yours to chris