Specific flavour in stout

[johncrobinson]

I remember guinness was prescibed to my grandmother. As has been said we now know it was pretty much an urban legend.
But a good beer can still be high in other forms of "goodness" if not specifically iron.

 

[An Ankoù]

I remember guinness was prescibed to my grandmother. As has been said we now know it was pretty much an urban legend.
But a good beer can still be high in other forms of "goodness" if not specifically iron.

The point of my earlier post was that it was prescribed for anaemia because it was thought to contain iron. In fact it doesn't contain any more iron than any other beer ie. very little. But why did they think that? Maybe it was the flavour from highly roasted malts.
I've no idea what the pre-war Guinness tasted like. I do know that, today, it's not the beer it once was.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

The idea that stout was a nourishing drink for invalids goes back to the 19th century, don't think it was anything to do with iron per se. See eg the introductory blurb for Mackeson, although you can take some of it with a pinch of salt :
http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2017/04/the-birth-of-milk-stout.html

A 2.8% version of Mackeson is still widely available in UK supermarkets, although I don't know whether they're still making the export version in the US.

 

[johncrobinson]

Thanks Northern_Brewer. That was a real interesting read.

Re:> Ankou. It was often said the Guiness in Britain was not as good as the Irish version.
When I ran a bar back in 2005 Guiness sent me info that in the future it was to be all the same Irish brew,
At the same time the Tucon bar posters reappeared.

I dont know what the situation is now in 2019.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Guinness for southern England was all brewed at their Park Royal brewery in west London from 1936 to 2005, but then they demolished it and moved production to Ireland.

Boak and Bailey have blogged extensively on Guinness based on various original source documents, you can see how even the Irish version has changed through the years.

Ron's done quite a lot on Mackeson over the years, I must admit the early versions such as this 1936 one look rather appealing.

 

[Brew_DD2]

Isn't it a keg beer all from one brewery these days? I'm not sure I buy into the whole "it's better in Ireland" thing. In fact I know I don't. Guinness is no different to any mass production beer.

Now, the variations on the Guinness Foreign Extras are a different story. Magnificent.

 

[kelper]

I have read that either Guinness or Mackeson was once obtainable on prescription, could have been due to the fallacy of the iron content. 1 pint of orange juice contains more iron than 18 pints of Guinness I think I remember reading, could have something to so with absorption as well.
If making a dry stout better to get some astringency into it by mashing the roast grains, oatmeal stouts, milk stouts cold steep for 24 hours.

When my mother was admitted to the QE Hospital in Birmingham for the birth of me and my twin brother (we each weighed over 7 lbs) she was given a bottle of Guinness every day.

On a separate note, I love Guinness but hate Guinness Extra. What is the difference?

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Extra is stronger, more bitter, and gassed with CO2.

 

[foxy]

When my mother was admitted to the QE Hospital in Birmingham for the birth of me and my twin brother (we each weighed over 7 lbs) she was given a bottle of Guinness every day.

On a separate note, I love Guinness but hate Guinness Extra. What is the difference?

There is Guiness Extra and Guinness Foreign Extra, I like both but prefer the GFE . All I know about the difference is the GFE is stronger.
I have drunk it around the world, and the worst Guinness I have ever had was in Malaysia, absolutely rank.

 

[An Ankoù]

I've brewed lots of stouts over the past few years, and I've never been able to get a specific "iron-like" flavour I've found in my favourite commercial varieties. I'm not ever sure if "iron" is the best description - it's akin to the slight metallic taste in blood. It's definitely not a hop flavour so I assume it must be malt or something in the water of the breweries - does anyone know what I'm talking about or have any suggestions for achieving it?

FYI, if you've ever tried Stringer's Dry Stout that's a good example with the flavour I'm talking about.

Just having a pint of my (well, Rob's Recipes) Twisted Stout and it made me think of your post. It's much improved since last I supped it and the "metallic" taste rounded out in the conditioning. While I've never tasted Stringer's Dry, I must say this is a lovely pint- all praise to Rob, I didn't design it, only brewed it. I will say that it's very disappointing until it's properly conditioned, and then it's a revelation. If you want to give it a go and can't find the recipe, it's here:
https://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/product/robs-twisted-stout/
The IBUs is about 30.

 

[Rodj]

I have drunk it around the world, and the worst Guinness I have ever had was in Malaysia, absolutely rank.

I've never drunk it in Malaysia, but I recall that Guinness in Malaysia was widely advertised as a woman's drink. I once pinched an advertising poster of an extremely dishy girl (Malay, I think) holding a glass of Guinness; I think I've still got it somewhere. Women seem to have different taste appreciations from men, so I wonder if the Guinness on sale there could have been a special brew designed for and aimed specifically at women.

 

[foxy]

I've never drunk it in Malaysia, but I recall that Guinness in Malaysia was widely advertised as a woman's drink. I once pinched an advertising poster of an extremely dishy girl (Malay, I think) holding a glass of Guinness; I think I've still got it somewhere. Women seem to have different taste appreciations from men, so I wonder if the Guinness on sale there could have been a special brew designed for and aimed specifically at women.

As I mentioned, in Indonesia the women drank Guinness (imported from Ireland) I think they were of the belief that it was also full of iron and good for them, (they were women of the night) They frown on drinking by women in the Muslim countries.
As for being a special brew in Malaysia I doubt it, it was just unpalatable. the best stout was a Royal Stout made in Malaysia by Carlsberg weighing in at 8% ABV

 

[An Ankoù]

There is Guiness Extra and Guinness Foreign Extra, I like both but prefer the GFE . All I know about the difference is the GFE is stronger.
I have drunk it around the world, and the worst Guinness I have ever had was in Malaysia, absolutely rank.

Have you tries the Guinness Foreign Extra Stout brewed under licence in Nigeria? A very interesting pint brewed with sorghum, I believe, and weighing in at 7.5% abv. It used to be available in Tesco looking just like ordinary Guiness with a tiny red "imported" tag on the label.

 

[foxy]

Sadly that is the only one we can get here, Guinness is brewed under licence here but Coopers have a Foreign extra which if I had to choose would choose that one. Went to Sri Lanka a couple of years ago and was drinking Lion stout which is 8.8 ABV from there went to the Maldives, strict penalty if caught bringing alcohol into the country but one was allowed to buy it there. My wife warned me to cut down on the alcohol after I emptied the bar fridge, we went out to dinner at a Thai restaurant I ordered a Heineken, that was all they had, my wife ordered a sparkling mineral water, and served me deaf and dumb sandwiches for the rest of the night. When the bill came my stubby of Heineken was $10 US and her sparkling mineral water was $14 US.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

I have always been curious about the significance of the word 'milk' in milk stout and what it was all about, anyone?

When out, I normally drink bitter, but the odd time I have had any beer at home, my choice has been Mackeson. I used to buy it and quite enjoy it when it was in bottles, not so much since they moved to cans - they flavours seem not so strong.

 

[Brew_DD2]

I have always been curious about the significance of the word 'milk' in milk stout and what it was all about, anyone?

When out, I normally drink bitter, but the odd time I have had any beer at home, my choice has been Mackeson. I used to buy it and quite enjoy it when it was in bottles, not so much since they moved to cans - they flavours seem not so strong.

The use of Lactose (sugar derived from milk).

 

[Rodj]

I recall that Guinness in Malaysia was widely advertised as a woman's drink. I once pinched an advertising poster of an extremely dishy girl (Malay, I think) holding a glass of Guinness

They frown on drinking by women in the Muslim countries.

I know, that's why I mentioned it and that I think she (the model) was Malay. She looked more Malay than Indian/Sri Lankan or Chinese. It struck me as somewhat improbable at first, but granted that she was a professional model and someone was willing to pay her a professional modelling fee, why not? - maybe she was at the forefront of a liberation movement.
On the subject of professional fees, why would "women of the night" (or "ladies of the evening" as one such once described herself and her colleagues to me) believe that they needed extra iron? I'm rather puzzled about that. Nonetheless, I suppose that if they did feel that way, then stout was a better option than brussels sprouts or similar.

 

[johncrobinson]

Re:>Harry Bloomfield
Its lactose thats used in stout,It wont ferment like ordinary sugar and is not so sweet tasting.
I used to love a mackeson.

 

[foxy]

I know, that's why I mentioned it and that I think she (the model) was Malay. She looked more Malay than Indian/Sri Lankan or Chinese. It struck me as somewhat improbable at first, but granted that she was a professional model and someone was willing to pay her a professional modelling fee, why not? - maybe she was at the forefront of a liberation movement.
On the subject of professional fees, why would "women of the night" (or "ladies of the evening" as one such once described herself and her colleagues to me) believe that they needed extra iron? I'm rather puzzled about that. Nonetheless, I suppose that if they did feel that way, then stout was a better option than brussels sprouts or similar.

Malay and Indonesia are pretty much the same, same religious beliefs,language, culture. When I was last in Malaysia it was one of the dearest places to go into a bar, the government taxed alcohol and cigarettes highly, but go into a supermarket and it was as cheap as. Guinness and all the other stouts are known as bir hitam (black beer) the ladies of the night probably thought, well I am sinning against Allah with my work, in for a penny in for a pound may as well enjoy a drink, probably a few ciggies as well.
Show them a brussel sprout and they wouldn't know what it was, same as most cold climate veggies.

 

[Rodj]

If I knew how to do it I’d put one of those little laughing face things in here. I didn’t mean the “brussels sprouts” bit to be taken literally - I thought that was clear from the “or similar”, but perhaps I was too obtuse. The sprouts comment was an implication that bearing in mind the ladies’ profession, the gastric effects of excessive sprout (or similar) consumption could be considered undesirable, so stout might be a preferable option. Remind me not to be obtuse.
Yes, drinks bought in the shops were fairly cheap. I’m not really aware of the cost at outside venues as most of the drinking I did in Malaysia was at home or at someone else’s home. When I did drink outside it was usually at one of two private clubs, where I was always a guest and my hosts simply did not want me to buy anything. On the couple of occasions when (I think) I did manage to buy drinks I have no idea what I bought or for how many people or how much it cost, as we were all too far gone to care. Those were the days.