Sparging in an all in one system

[hoppyscotty]

Ah, nice description Nick...I was not necessarily trying to fix a problem as such, just trying to establish best practice and do as good a job as I can for consistency as much as anything else, but your explanation makes sense and maybe its something I don't need to be overly concerned about. I have recently read an article on mashing and what goes on in the mash and it did say that it is important to wash out the sugars from the grain as the conversion happens within the husk, and said that is why the sparge process is so important hence leading me to think a bit more deeply about it...however the point about recirculation in the mash is noted and makes complete sense in the context of the article I read.

 

[Covrich]

I am not asnwering the question by suggesting this I know But just to give an alternative..

I don't even bother! full volume water in the AIO mash in, I do a sort of mash out by warming it up recirculate over the grains while its draining off until its at 75ºc

get 70+% everytime.

Easy peasey

 

[RoomWithABrew]

In a recirculating system won't the sugars in solution and the grains reach equilibrium by the end of the mash?

Lift the malt pipe and or sparge it all depends on how much is left in the grains or in the kettle.
It's that fine balance between extraction and volume. I could get nearly all the sugar out of my mash if I used 10 litres per kg to mash or sparged with 4 x my mash volume.
But then I'd be boiling for hours. So we have to find a happy middle ground and accept we put a lot of sugar on the compost / garden / waste.

 

[HarryFlatters]

I don't even bother!

Same. I've got a 50 litre Hopcat and I do full volume mashing. I hit my numbers with efficiency set to 70% on Brewer's Friend. I've never bothered to chase higher efficiency, I don't see the point at homebrew level.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

If recirculaton is good for the mash then why not for the sparge? So
1. Mash and recirculate.
2. Empty wort into bucket.
3. Add sparge water and recirculate.
4. Remove grain basket and allow to drain.
5. Add the wort from the bucket.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Same. I've got a 50 litre Hopcat and I do full volume mashing. I hit my numbers with efficiency set to 70% on Brewer's Friend. I've never bothered to chase higher efficiency, I don't see the point at homebrew level.

Now that is a good process and no liftng the grain basket to sparge. Just for draining.

 

[Covrich]

Now that is a good process and no liftng the grain basket to sparge. Just for draining.

Yep it is so simple, like Harry says a 45l hopcat does allow this with less faff I guess. hit the numbers everytime

 

[nickjdavis]

Ah, nice description Nick...I was not necessarily trying to fix a problem as such, just trying to establish best practice and do as good a job as I can for consistency as much as anything else, but your explanation makes sense and maybe its something I don't need to be overly concerned about. I have recently read an article on mashing and what goes on in the mash and it did say that it is important to wash out the sugars from the grain as the conversion happens within the husk, and said that is why the sparge process is so important hence leading me to think a bit more deeply about it...however the point about recirculation in the mash is noted and makes complete sense in the context of the article I read.

I am glad you found what I posted helpful. I'm not dismissing at all the points made by others, but one of the things that I learned quite quickly when I started brewing was that a lot of what you read (whether it be in books or from posters on the internet) needs to be put into context of what system/equipment is being used.

I used to be told so many times that...you must do this and, it is best if you do that and, this wont work without the other; and it took some time to realise that I was being told those things because the people who were trying to help me were governed/constrained/lead by the brewing systems they were using, or the environment they were working in.

These methods in effect were their dogma, because that was what they were so used to doing and they couldn't/wouldn't put themselves in the position of someone else who might be using a different system or working differently. Quite simply, what they were telling me I must do, wasn't relevant to my system/process/environment. That is one reason why the internet (not just relating to brewing!!) is full of conflicting advice....two people, different systems, find different ways of working...neither is right or wrong in the context of what they do as individuals but both could easily be wrong for someone else.

Happy brewing!

 

[crowcrow]

Totally this - let's rewind to the problem:

old brewing methods of mashing were not that efficient and left sugar on the malt

New all in one systems are pretty damn efficient, and brewing full volume means you may well hit your numbers without sparging.

Don't feel like if /has/ to take a long time just because old ways of mashing did - your method seems fine as it is.

That said, I don't believe there is a wrong or a right way to brew and more than anything you have to find the right combination of enjoyment and efficiency (of time more than anything else) that suits what you want from this very fun hobby. Some people love a 5 hour plus brew day and have no interest in rushing things, some people want to be done in a couple of hours, and some are very happy tweaking a kit and being done in 15 mins - I think any and all brewing methods can be great fun for those who enjoy them

 

[stripeyjoe]

I only sparge with my BIAB system to get my pre-boil volume level up to the max (my boiler is only 27l), my thinking is I might as well pour the warm water through the lifted grain than just pour it straight into the boiler.

 

[hoppyscotty]

Might try gradually moving my sparge volume into my mash...another thing that I've noted is that my pre-sparge gravity takes a hit after sparge...all works out in the end but seems a bit daft to sparge at all if it reduces gravity I.e. sparge is clearly not pulling out much sugar at all....so gradually moving sparge water into recirculating mash might work towards removing the step altogether as some have done already.

 

[RoomWithABrew]

@hoppyscotty
Just for your info, after you have done your sparge whichever method. Stand the malt pipe over a bucket, squeeze it all down using top plate and something else ie the jug. Then pour a couple of kettle fulls of boiling water over it. Leave it to drain for a while and squeeze it again and see what gravity you get.
It'll be high enough gravity to freeze it and use it after boiling for a yeast starter base I'll bet.

 

[The Baron]

Thats exactly what I do RoomWithABrew I stand the maltpipe in a bucket slightly on the tilt to drain(I do not sparge it in my case) and keep adding the liquor that drains to the wort as it is reaching boil temp.
As regards freezing some great idea for you yeast re-hydraters etc

 

[hoppyscotty]

Some good ideas there on what to do with the 'waste' wort, but I must confess to being a squeezer...I'll wait for the malt pipe to stop dripping then give the top plate a good push and often get another half to full litre of wort. Never had any issues with tannins or off flavours from doing that.

 

[531Man]

Some good ideas there on what to do with the 'waste' wort, but I must confess to being a squeezer...I'll wait for the malt pipe to stop dripping then give the top plate a good push and often get another half to full litre of wort. Never had any issues with tannins or off flavours from doing that.

My twopenn'orth:
Only having moved from hob-top casserole mashing to a (modified) Hopcat recently, I have a sparging habit. After the malt pipe lifted sparging I take the top grid off and press the grain judiciously with a potato masher. Hearing the trickling out of the extra wort is satisfying, but not necessarily much use looking through this thread.
Like others, I'm basically making up the mash to the boil volume anyway.
I use the externalised feed to the internal pump to gently sparge, fed from preheated water - sorry, liquor - in a casserole (can't kick the habit).
This photo is from later when whirlpooling through the 'drain tap'.
The empty sparge liquor casserole can be seen in the sink.
I know the jacket is a Brew Monk, but the AIO really is a Hopcat.
It has an Angel brew lid as well, but that's another story!

 

[dave_77]

View attachment 55304
My twopenn'orth:
Only having moved from hob-top casserole mashing to a (modified) Hopcat recently, I have a sparging habit. After the malt pipe lifted sparging I take the top grid off and press the grain judiciously with a potato masher. Hearing the trickling out of the extra wort is satisfying, but not necessarily much use looking through this thread.
Like others, I'm basically making up the mash to the boil volume anyway.
I use the externalised feed to the internal pump to gently sparge, fed from preheated water - sorry, liquor - in a casserole (can't kick the habit).
This photo is from later when whirlpooling through the 'drain tap'.
The empty sparge liquor casserole can be seen in the sink.
I know the jacket is a Brew Monk, but the AIO really is a Hopcat.
It has an Angel brew lid as well, but that's another story!

Interesting alternative to setting up a whirlpool

 

[531Man]

Interesting alternative to setting up a whirlpool

Thanks, but I can't claim the credit - it was the instigator who posted how to do the pump feed externalising - Ace/Hopcat/Klarstein Sightglass, Sparge and Wirlpool Mod
Thread starterCptCaveman Start dateMar 12, 2018
@CptCaveman who in a later comment advised on the 'drain tap bypass' whirlpool method.
I have a 90° elbow threaded onto the tap thread inside the Brew vessel pointing to the right to make it whirlpool.

 

[RoomWithABrew]

Been doing the tap whirlpool reverse for a while now.

I have a bit of stainless tube slightly compressed and bent to get the flow away from the wall better. You can see my trubtrapper in the bottom here as well.

Picture of trubtrappers and after transfer

I was running the coolossus before the whirlpool.

Recently though I've changed the tap out and put a half inch ball valve in and a 3 way on the recirc pipe, this allows whirlpool alone, coolossus and whirlpool and then coolossus and hop missile ( used as a filter with grain bag and oat hulls to catch the cold break before transfer). I can also put the hop missile on the recirc or before the coolossus to use as a hop back. Using hop missile as a filter means I can pretty much pump to dry.

I do not use the kit at this height but have it all on the floor.
Changing from reverse flow tap to half inch ball valve has improved the flow a lot.

 

[micklupulo]

Sorry to come to this late but I wonder if anyone has a view as to whether I should do anything different in my sparging method. I have an ancient Electrim bin and as we are contemplating downsizing house I cannot realistically buy a fancy new system. After mashing I yank the bag and contents out and drop it into a plastic bucket drilled with holes which in turn is dropped into a narrow FV so the bucket rests at the top. I then sparge from the top with water at the correct temp from a plastic jug. The FV has a tap so I drain out and gradually top up the boil to keep it up to the max of about 21/22 litres. It works and I can produce good beer but is tedious so comments would be welcome.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

If it works stick with it.