Something sort of Sake (Rice & Raisin Wine) 23.11.08

[BrewStew]

it's taken over a week to drop to 1.016... finings and campden are goin in today so it clears in time for new year :thumb:

 

[percival]

well i hope you still get a yummy winter warmer out of this!

to be honest i'm a little disappointed (and very surprised!) that it hasn't fermented further and faster. IIRC i wasn't in a hurry when i did the marmite and lemon juice version so i probably more or less forgot about it after primary and only checked occassionaly for sediment to inform me about racking from secondary. i'm disappointed for both of us, for me because this is a great fun wine that i've always had success with, and for you because it is your first try at it and it hasn't been plain sailing. Still you don't seem like the sort of brewer that will be put off trying something new and unusual by having one odd result.

 

[BrewStew]

dont worry about it P... i'm not i cant argue at 12.5% ish and it does taste slightly less sweet now :thumb:

the only thing i'm hoping for is clarity before new year :pray:

 

[Taylor-MadeAK]

Here's the batch of red sake that I just started:



Rice, water, koji, and red koji is all that is in there. Yeah, I know, right now it looks like a bucket of gore. It smells pretty good, though, even before the yeast was added. Like apricots and chestnuts.

The white spots are actually fuzz from where the fresh koji took off growing again when it was moved from the fridge to a room temperature environment. That will stop when the yeast starts producing CO2 because the mold will then suffocate.

 

[BrewStew]

looks good!

i especially like one of your other photos on photobucket with your cat sat on your coolbox

 

[percival]

cool. i love how what starts out looking (and sometimes smelling) awful turns out wonderful. Tho i think your bucket of gore looks great!

 

[percival]

Hey Taylor

its cool having your authentic sake along-side a sake-stylee wine here, but a brewday thread started by you, about making sake would attract more attention and interest for your wine i reckon. it seems a shame to bury it here :?

 

[BrewStew]

something weird is happening :wha:

i added 3 campdens (1 per gallon) and added finings yet today it's showing now sign of clarity. i got my laser pen out and pointed it through the murky stuff (a little trick i figured out for checking how clear it is while in a big container). i can still see tiny bubbles rising to the surface. what's more... it's dropped another 2 points on the hydrometer :shock: :shock: :wha:

i think i'll have to add more campden today :hmm:

 

[percival]

lol, they mysterious persistent brew!

i have seen some recipes and methods posted online that say using campden tablets/powder on their own isn't enough to stop all todays brewing yeasts are pretty robust beasties . don't know how true this is tho, and i have only started using the stuff recently myself.

 

[BrewStew]

sorry i haven't been able to post an update i've been so busy this xmas.

i didn't add more campden in the end... instead i chucked the demi outside in the freezing cold and left it there (it's still there now)... it's been there since the 24th and it's now clear enough to see about an inch down... which at this volume i reckon is pretty clear! the hydrometer is steady.

i've had a bit too much to drink to bottle it tonight, but i'll definitely be bottling it tomorrow! YAY :party:

 

[percival]

watch out that it doesn't start fermenting again once its bottled and moved indoors .... the warmth and sugar content. shouldn't be a problem if you're gonna drink it soon tho.

 

[BrewStew]

that's a point :hmm: cheers P

i might stick it in a cornie to serve on tap for new year and to let it sort itself out then bottle it.

 

[percival]

good plan, people can nuke a glass at a time and you'll prolly be able to keep an eye on it too.

 

[BrewStew]

i was so pickled on new years eve that i forgot that i popped a bottle of R&R for the event. it was *almost* clear. just a slight haze. no sediment in the bottle so i'm guessing it's starch, even though my test was negative.

it was nice, and a couple of girls had a few wee schnufters, but unfortunately they thought it was to be drunk more like a liqueur than a wine. and im afraid i've got to agree with them. the bottle was only half drunk by the end of the night cos it just feels like your drinking a 40% liqueur.

i still like it. just no way i could drink a bottle or two in one sitting like i've been known to do with red wine :lol:

i'm wondering what it'll taste like now after being open (and re corked) for 5 days as it certainly isnt like a liqueur that can be opened then left for months even years, surely?

 

[percival]

Looking on the bright side If you can reproduce this brew BS then having something in your arsenal that is liquer like and ready in weeks/months is a result. Quite amazing how it tastes like it has such a ABV, you can see why i recommend it as a winter warmer alternative to a toddy. did you serve it up hot? i'm guessing not as you brought it out by mistake?

Mine doesn't have the oiliness or sweetness that is normally associated with liquers. if you are gonna brew it again then would you go the same route or make some changes (citric acid and nutrient being the obvious ones, but also things like chopping/washing/boiling raisins)

As for how long you can keep it for when its opened well i'm no expert there cos i tend to finish a bottle when i open it, whatever the wine is. If i am to guess tho then i would say give it a smell. if it smells ok (and looks ok) then heat it up and serve it. As this is one best served warm (imo) chances are it'll stand the ravages of time better than most. Tradition in my family has been to add lemon juice and sugar when making a toddy. i reckon yours won't need the sugar but you may want to try adding a squeeze of lemon juice.

Anyway, glad to hear it passed the taste test and as it stands it seems like you just need to find the right occasion for it.

 

[BrewStew]

i didnt bring it out by mistake, i actually i think this stuff tastes better chilled. it's too harsh when warm.

if i were to brew it again, i'd definitely use less sugar. i cant really say what else i'd do to it until i've tasted it in a less sweet state.

i'm the kind of guy that only changes one thing at a time to see how it affects it, then make a decision based on my new findings

 

[percival]

okies, i re-read your post, properly this time! it was the being 'pickled' and 'forgot' that lead to me misreading what you wrote!

very interesting that you prefer it cold. in future when i pass a bottle on i may recommend it warm but not discourage drinking it cold (as i do atm).

Changing one thing at a time is a good strategy, keeps it simple. The first thing i changed was ditching the marmite in favour of proprietary nutrient. Its a common ingredient and has a long shelf life. I don't know how fussy you are about yeast varieties but you can also get sachets of yeast that include nutrient. Probably just fine for a quick brew like this one.

 

[Aleman]

I hesitate to post this but see little point in brewing a country wine and then adding a varietal yeast. The only time a varietal yeast is going to make a significant difference is when you are trying to emulate a wine of that variety. Country wines are so variable (and often do not resemble 'wine' as such) that you may as well use a GP yeast

 

[percival]

there are some significant differences that a different yeast will make. some yeasts are particularly robust and have wider/different tolerances ranges for pH, temp, alcohol content etc etc. A little reading around informed me that sauternes yeast is sometimes stipulated in country wine recipes for one, or more, of those reasons (and some reasons that i haven't mentioned here too!) - is sauternes yeast actually just another name for general purpose wine yeast??? I only bought it for the first time recently after a homebrew shop recommended it - TBH i don't know if they were recommending a brand or a variety but they had more than one variety in each brand for each wine type.

Although i am new to investigating and using different yeasts its not hard to find info that tells you it makes a difference, and the difference is significant. The only things to determine are if the differences are something you desire or not, can you be bothered, are you happy with what you are making presently, have you got the stage of brewing where you might want to start experimenting with yeasts etc etc. If your style is to steer clear of being what you consider to be overly analytical, or steer clear of spending money on and fiddling about with kit, then your ingredients list is probably the one you'll play with. the keeping it simple school of thought i guess.

anyway this needs to be brought into the context of the thread so in a nutshell ...

Brewstew, buying a sachet of yeast that includes nutrient will remove the need to buy a tub of nutrient if you are probably not going to use it again and don't want to be wasteful. (i'm almost embarrassed to spell this out but don't want you to be misdirected from the ONLY reason i mentioned it) I wouldn't recommend a specific variety of yeast for this sake because i like it as a winter warmer toddy that is ready to drink quickly and that is more than a novelty brew. however, as you prefer yours cold you may be taking your sweeter version in an entirely new direction if you pursue it.

and general info for country wines having mention sauternes and so it springs to mind; Sauternes yeast is often recommended for restarting stuck fermentation in country wines. Something i haven't had problems with to date.

 

[Aleman]

If you are going to make a 'wine' from oak leaves, teabags, lemon juice, sugar, marmite and what not, then adding a Sauternes yeast is not going to make a Sauternes wine . . . and in fact will almost certainly produce a wine that is no different to one made with a GP yeast . . . . I know this not from reading about it, but from actually doing the bloody thing! Take a 5 gallon batch of must, split it into 5 demijohns and pitch each one with a different wine yeast . . . treat each demijohn the same, and bottle, sample after ageing . . . see if you can spot the differences. With country wines the results of the blind taste tests I did, with a group of friends on several occasions over the period of a couple of years showed one thing . . . There is no point in using anything other than a GP yeast in (most) country wines . . . where you are trying to emulate a style using say berries to supplement a Grape juice based must . . . then you start to see differences . . . but they are not all that profound, environmental influences have a much bigger impact.

FWIW if you get a stuck fermentation it means a couple of things . . . the most significant is that you probably have a poor recipe, or your ingredients are poor. Like beer brewing if you have a balanced must/wort the yeasties will work quite happily. And the most effective method of restarting a stuck fermentation is not to add a Sauturnes yeast . . . but to do an incremental restart.