Solving solvent flavours

[Stu's Brews]

Regardless of any other issues, getting the mash pH lower than 5.77 will be highly beneficial to all the subsequent steps of the process.

Very much agree with this - for an IPA you want to be in the 5.2 - 5.4 range really.

 

[Nottsbeer]

I have both an inkbird (situated on the outside of the FV under kitchen paper) and an ispindle in the FV. Temp always goes up about 1oC during the first few days. The inkbird is set at 19 and temp is usually 0.5oC lower on the ispindle at the start. I'm sure the temp would go higher but I guess the fridge kicks in and stops it running too high.

Having had a comment recently of off taste on a higher ABV brew I did, I suspect I have under pitched in the past and had stressed yeast causing some off flavours. I'm now using a whole yeast pack for a c.14l brew to hopefully overcome that taste. Not sure if this will help

 

[The Baron]

Very much agree with this - for an IPA you want to be in the 5.2 - 5.4 range really.

Second that you need to get your mash PH down, that is where the astringency is possibly coming from.
Can you taste and smell the solvent from any bottles you have left.
If you can not taste or smell it now it is a mystery- have you had Covid at some time as this can affect your taste and smell(long shot) or is it all in the keg and that tastes ok to you if so I would bottle some more just like you have for the competition and see if they go the same way at least you can see if it is your keg to bottle process that is causing it

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

Second that you need to get your mash PH down, that is where the astringency is possibly coming from.
Can you taste and smell the solvent from any bottles you have left.
If you can not taste or smell it now it is a mystery- have you had Covid at some time as this can affect your taste and smell(long shot) or is it all in the keg and that tastes ok to you if so I would bottle some more just like you have for the competition and see if they go the same way at least you can see if it is your keg to bottle process that is causing it

Totally agree: especially useful to acidly the sparge water, to avoid picking up tannins from the grain bed

 

[dreaddan]

What brand of bottled water are you using?

Regardless of any other issues, getting the mash pH lower than 5.77 will be highly beneficial to all the subsequent steps of the process.

I use a mix depending on where I can get to or what I need.
So tesco ashbank, asda elm

 

[dreaddan]

What brand of bottled water are you using?

Regardless of any other issues, getting the mash pH lower than 5.77 will be highly beneficial to all the subsequent steps of the process.

It depends on where I can get to and what I need, is normaly tesco ashbank, asda elmhurst or sainsbury.

 

[dreaddan]

Second that you need to get your mash PH down, that is where the astringency is possibly coming from.
Can you taste and smell the solvent from any bottles you have left.
If you can not taste or smell it now it is a mystery- have you had Covid at some time as this can affect your taste and smell(long shot) or is it all in the keg and that tastes ok to you if so I would bottle some more just like you have for the competition and see if they go the same way at least you can see if it is your keg to bottle process that is causing it

I've had covid several times but only lost my taste once, though I know my pallet isn't great.
I'll be having a bottle on Sunday when I'm back to taste.

I only bottle condition (currently)

 

[Sadfield]

It depends on where I can get to and what I need, is normaly tesco ashbank, asda elmhurst or sainsbury.

Could you have used Elmhurst for this brew? Looking at the mineral content it has bicarbonate of 166ppm, which is too high for an IPA. And would explain the high mash pH and astringency.

 

[dreaddan]

I did use elmhurst for this, with the hoppy light profile that has a 258 bicarbonate (hco3).

I guess I need to find out more about the use of the target profiles again.

 

[Stu's Brews]

I did use elmhurst for this, with the hoppy light profile that has a 258 bicarbonate (hco3).

I guess I need to find out more about the use of the target profiles again.

I think what you might be missing is controlling the alkalinity of both your mash and sparge water. For a pale ale your mash alkalinity should be fairly low ~20ppm CaCO3 and your sparge water should be the same or lower (targeting zero is no bad thing).

Might be worth reading up on water treatment from this thread. It's a fairly good introduction to the subject.

 

[dreaddan]

I have poor signal where I am so not all of my reply are being posted

Looking at others I've brewed where I've had a bit of astringentcy the mash pH has been high.
Thinking back to even sharks clone I did which is great apart from 'something' it tasted ok till I did a dyactal rest.

So I think mash pH and temp I need to look at..

 

[Sadfield]

Thinking back to even sharks clone I did which is great apart from 'something' it tasted ok till I did a dyactal rest.

Two thoughts from this.

Firstly, if it tastes great and doesn't have the flavours associated with diacetyl (buttery) , don't bother with the diacetyl rest.

The diacetyl rest shouldn't be an issue. If raising the beer temperature by a few degrees has imparted other flavours into the beer, this to me would indicate an increase in some form of microbial growth.

I feel, by sorting your mash pH and subsequently having a lower final pH, along with not rinsing after using chemsan, you'll have a more protection against contamination.

Sticking to Ashbeck with an addition of gypsum and/or calcium chloride, should give you low alkalinity with enough calcium for healthy fermentation.

 

[dreaddan]

Two thoughts from this.

Firstly, if it tastes great and doesn't have the flavours associated with diacetyl (buttery) , don't bother with the diacetyl rest.

The diacetyl rest shouldn't be an issue. If raising the beer temperature by a few degrees has imparted other flavours into the beer, this to me would indicate an increase in some form of microbial growth.

I feel, by sorting your mash pH and subsequently having a lower final pH, along with not rinsing after using chemsan, you'll have a more protection against contamination.

Sticking to Ashbeck with an addition of gypsum and/or calcium chloride, should give you low alkalinity with enough calcium for healthy fermentatio

I think the raising of temp may have just caused it to go over temp. As I would have expected the beer to have changed over time - I still have a few bottles that I had recently.

I think I need fo brew the same recipie a few times, changing only my process to work out what what's going on.

 

[Sandimas]

I've had problems with this on and off over the years, just the occasional brew. It's been hard to track down but I think it's been due to too high a temperature as it's not every beer just the occasional one. I'll probably get shot down for this but I used to measure mash pH and adjust but TBH it seemed a lot of faff for little detectable again, at least to my palate: I'm a great fan of keeping things as simple as possible.

Regarding tasting it, it's a very personal thing, my wife can't detect it at all so all the slightly-off beers go to her

 

[The Baron]

Around 10 years ago I did 3 AG Kits on the trot and they all had astringency, they were full volume BIAB with no treated water for PH. It disappeared as soon as I started using some bottled water with the tap water to dilute it and after that I started using 1/2 RO water and 1/2 tapwater which cured it also
I have reverted back to tap water but use acidified malt to adjust the PH and always 1/2 a campden tablet.
I think you have a water issue and be aware your tap water does change through the year so it could also be a slight change of this which has also added to the astringency too

 

[dreaddan]

Hi, I think I've found the problem - though I've still not tasted the beer I have played with my inkbird to compare it with my food temp probe. It shows between 1C and 3c out vs the temp probe.
Though it's probably within the margin or error it's reading 23deg in my kitchen...

So I'm going to see if I can get a new probe or just get a new unit.

 

[dreaddan]

Well I'm more confused.
I've had a quick taste of one of the bottles I've marked for sending out.
Pours very clear (was supposed to be cloudy), the first glass you get the bitter mango but no 'off flavours'
2nd glass and there's a bit of a metallic bitterness to it.
3rd glass is cloudy with a bitterness and an odd tang...

I'll try another beer along with one of the newer batches too get a better idea...

 

[Pavros]

Wait!!!!

You're pouring 3 glasses from the same bottle?
You should pour a bottle all in one go, making sure that you pour slowly and carefully until you see the first trace of yeast in the bottle neck. If your glass isn't big enough, pour into a large jug. This will mean you have clear beer each time.

That is why you are getting cloudy beer after the first pour as you have stirred up the yeast at the bottom of the bottle and it hasn't had time to settle by the time you pour the second and third glasses. Could also be why the third glass tastes weird as it has a load of yeast in it.

 

[Sadfield]

What @Pavros said. Though this is a separate issue and shouldn't be viewed as a resolution to the original post of faults being identified at competition.

 

[dreaddan]

I know what your saying, I only fancied a half last night and assumed it would be v obvious so just poured a half. When it wast obvious I poured more.

Today's beer is inconclusive- poured most of a pint and poured the rest into another glass...

Apart from a strong bitterness I cannot get any solvent/chemical taste from either glass.

I've given a few bottles to friends and am waiting feedback..
I might try shaking a bottle up and leaving for a week to simulate posting.

I think I may replace my fermenter and tap just incase there is an issue with these.