RO system

[johnnyboy1965]

2nd Top Tip....Do not drink RO water that is older than 24hrs...If chilled to 4oC you can keep it for 48hrs. This is because all the chemicals that keep the water safe to drink have been removed. A breading ground for bacteria.

 

[private4587]

Top Tip...Always keep your RO system turned on, just at a slight trickle. As soon as you turn it off the membrane will not do its job.
I reall ydont recommend turning it on and off...This will just damage the membrane and allow (dirty) water through. Always test with a quality TDS meter. TDS meters are available on line and are quite cheap.

Before I retired from working offshore, I used to work a lot with big industrial water RO units i.e. maintenance I was always told that as long as membranes were kept wet that this was ok. so if you were to block the inlet and outlet closed with water within the system all would be OK. Upon restarting they would need to be ran for a while before using the water

Peter

 

[private4587]

I am getting a three stage RO unit for Chrimbo, my question is do i need a DI filter added to this system to get decent water for my home-brew

 

[AdeDunn]

Nope. It just makes the water purer than it needs to be imho. They're good for reef tank hobbyists as they remove the silicates that promote diatoms.

Just my opinion though.

Sent from my NEM-L51 using Tapatalk

 

[GlentoranMark]

GlentoranMark...are you sure those readings are correct....5-20 ppm are very low. Im not disputing it but those figures mean that there will be no Chloride/Chlorine....Floride/florine (sp) in your water and no detectable trace elements either.
Im only asking because I keep a marine reef aquarium and need to get my water to as near "O" as possible and a few reef keepers in NI have trouble with this.
Solihull (Servern Trent Water) before RO treatment 184ppm...after RO 6ppm after DI 4ppm

Sorry for the late reply, yes Johnny. I had a Waterfed pole for Window Cleaning around 10 years ago and regularly tested the water. It was 10ppm at home but as low as 5ppm around other parts of Belfast.

A TDS meter costs �£10. I bought the machine off a guy in Edinburgh and he also had very low impurities in the water.

Get a water report and ask for the TDS number before spending any money.

Private, RO and DI filters are just 2 separate ways to filter the water. If you've a very high TDS reading then both may make sense but if your only gonna use it for brewing then the 3 stage (even a 1 stage) would be OK.

RO filters through a membrane and is a slower for purifying but it's also more efficient. DI is instantaneous but the DI beads wear out quicker. For small volumes it's fine enough. We had one of those American fridges (until it packed in) and it came with a small inline water filter. It lasted ages before needing replaced. If your in an area with a low TDS reading then it could be the cheapest and quickest way to filter your brewing water.

Edit, just notice those filters are Carbon filters but they should take enough solids out of the water. A TDS meter is always handy to have for testing.

Before you go spending hundreds, find out what you really need.

 

[johnnyboy1965]

Sorry for the late reply, yes Johnny. I had a Waterfed pole for Window Cleaning around 10 years ago and regularly tested the water. It was 10ppm at home but as low as 5ppm around other parts of Belfast.

A TDS meter costs ��£10. I bought the machine off a guy in Edinburgh and he also had very low impurities in the water.

Get a water report and ask for the TDS number before spending any money.

Private, RO and DI filters are just 2 separate ways to filter the water. If you've a very high TDS reading then both may make sense but if your only gonna use it for brewing then the 3 stage (even a 1 stage) would be OK.

RO filters through a membrane and is a slower for purifying but it's also more efficient. DI is instantaneous but the DI beads wear out quicker. For small volumes it's fine enough. We had one of those American fridges (until it packed in) and it came with a small inline water filter. It lasted ages before needing replaced. If your in an area with a low TDS reading then it could be the cheapest and quickest way to filter your brewing water.

Edit, just notice those filters are Carbon filters but they should take enough solids out of the water. A TDS meter is always handy to have for testing.

Before you go spending hundreds, find out what you really need.

I think you have me wrong. Ive had various RO Systems over the last 20 years. Sometimes its cheaper to replace the whole unit, than it is the various filters/membranes. I was just questioning how low your TDS are before filtration

 

[BeerCat]

Am I correct that the water report does not give levels of estrogen and pharmaceuticals?

 

[johnnyboy1965]

If your any good at DIY you can easily make your own filter.
1 x 4ft piece of plastic drain pipe.
1 End blanking piece (drill a small hole 4mm) in the bottom.

3/4 fill with activated carbon pellets. top off with filter floss.
Hose in the top and a gentle trickle through...cleanish water out, good enough for brewing. Mine went from 184ppm down to 10ppm with this set-up. I used it to top up the evapouration on my "frag" tank. Dont worry about the cost of the carbon (its cheap anyway). You can re-use it by simply drying it out in a very cool oven. Same as the floss, simply wash it out in water.
This system outlasted the life of the "frag" tank, until I found out how much it was costing to heat a fish tank to 24oC in a cold garage

But a Campden tablet will do the same, just without the fun of building something

 

[johnnyboy1965]

Am I correct that the water report does not give levels of estrogen and pharmaceuticals?

Never heard of estrogen in water and pharmaceuticals is a bit vague

 

[johnnyboy1965]

Do you mean Oestrogen?

 

[BeerCat]

Do you mean O estrogen?

Sorry i don't think i got that right calling it estrogen. The stuff from contraceptives.

 

[johnnyboy1965]

A good Reverse Osmosis system will remove 99.99% of everything that is not H2O. This is as near to Distilled Water as you can get.
The only problem is, is if you have a very high TDS reading (Total Dissolved Solids) it will still only remove 99.99% of the things that aren`t pure water.
Unless you are building your own water profile and need to start with "0" ie..pure/distilled water. I wouldnt bother.

 

[johnnyboy1965]

Sorry i don't think i got that right calling it estrogen. The stuff from contraceptives.

Yes it does, but it tends to get very moody at certain times of the month for some unknown reason. Excellent typo though

 

[johnnyboy1965]

You can buy RO water from your local Aquatic Pet Shop..Its about 12p per litre

 

[strange-steve]

Technically it doesn't leave the calcium, but rather adds it back to the water in the form of calcium carbonate. This really negates the point of using it (from a brewers perspective) because the majority of us who use an RO system do so to remove alkalinity. The benefit of having an RO system is that it gives you control over what's in your brewing water, control which is lost if the system is adding stuff back into it.

 

[liamf89]

Technically it doesn't leave the calcium, but rather adds it back to the water in the form of calcium carbonate. This really negates the point of using it (from a brewers perspective) because the majority of us who use an RO system do so to remove alkalinity. The benefit of having an RO system is that it gives you control over what's in your brewing water, control which is lost if the system is adding stuff back into it.

Well Steve am yet to try out the water chemistry as still not sure what to do exactly..i enter my water profile as 0 across board on brewers friends then pick target profile eg hoppy pale beer.. But then I have no idea how to figure out what additions to do to get profile to desired numbers

 

[strange-steve]

Are you using the simplified calculator here:
https://www.brewersfriend.com/water-chemistry/

If so then just input the water volume at the top, choose the desired target profile, and then with a little trial and error try to match the profile by playing about with the brewing salt additions.
To keep it simple, just worry about calcium (Ca), sulphate (SO4), chloride (Cl) and bicarbonate (HCO3) and ignore the other values. That means the only salts you need to add are gypsum (to increase sulphate), calcium chloride (to increase chloride) and baking soda (to increase bicarbonate). Don't worry about matching values exactly, just get within +/- 20 ppm or so.
As an example, have a look at this screenshot for a light and hoppy profile with RO water:

 

[liamf89]

Are you using the simplified calculator here:
https://www.brewersfriend.com/water-chemistry/

If so then just input the water volume at the top, choose the desired target profile, and then with a little trial and error try to match the profile by playing about with the brewing salt additions.
To keep it simple, just worry about calcium (Ca), sulphate (SO4), chloride (Cl) and bicarbonate (HCO3) and ignore the other values. That means the only salts you need to add are gypsum (to increase sulphate), calcium chloride (to increase chloride) and baking soda (to increase bicarbonate). Don't worry about matching values exactly, just get within +/- 20 ppm or so.
As an example, have a look at this screenshot for a light and hoppy profile with RO water:

So basically as along as you are getting all stars at the bottom you are close enough to your target is it just them ones you need to add the additions to get your target. What profile would you recommend for neipa

 

[strange-steve]

No, the stars don't mean you're close to your target, they only mean the values are within recommended general brewing range. When the numbers in the "difference" row go green, then you're close enough.

For a NEIPA the closest is probably light and malty, but personally I'd increase the calcium from 60 to 100 ppm.

 

[BeerCat]

Are you using the simplified calculator here:
https://www.brewersfriend.com/water-chemistry/

If so then just input the water volume at the top, choose the desired target profile, and then with a little trial and error try to match the profile by playing about with the brewing salt additions.
To keep it simple, just worry about calcium (Ca), sulphate (SO4), chloride (Cl) and bicarbonate (HCO3) and ignore the other values. That means the only salts you need to add are gypsum (to increase sulphate), calcium chloride (to increase chloride) and baking soda (to increase bicarbonate). Don't worry about matching values exactly, just get within +/- 20 ppm or so.
As an example, have a look at this screenshot for a light and hoppy profile with RO water:

Hi Steve. I made the mistake of thinking the software would calculate the additions for you but now i have a better grasp on it. Any chance you could upload that screenshot again as it too low res to read.