Racking to a 2nd FV for priming - opinions?

[David Woods]

Been talking to the LHBS re bottling equipment and they have told me I should not rack to another FV prior to adding priming sugar solution as I will likely not bring over enough active yeast to carbonate - not suggesting they are wrong of course but most of what I have read says to rack to another FV, add the sugar solution being careful not to stir too much then this enables bottling to various sized bottles I have.

This I had planned on doing as the brew having been dry hopped without a bag has a lot stuff floating about and the thought of adding the sugar solution to that then stirring to distribute seems a recipe for churning up the trub and getting a very very cloudy beer.

Could I please get your thoughts as I am now confused as to what I should do - as always thanks in advance.

 

[Ben034]

Been talking to the LHBS re bottling equipment and they have told me I should not rack to another FV prior to adding priming sugar solution as I will likely not bring over enough active yeast to carbonate - not suggesting they are wrong of course but most of what I have read says to rack to another FV, add the sugar solution being careful not to stir too much then this enables bottling to various sized bottles I have.

This I had planned on doing as the brew having been dry hopped without a bag has a lot stuff floating about and the thought of adding the sugar solution to that then stirring to distribute seems a recipe for churning up the trub and getting a very very cloudy beer.

Could I please get your thoughts as I am now confused as to what I should do - as always thanks in advance.

I think they are wrong and you should proceed as planned. Personally I prefer to add a measured amount of sugar solution to each bottle using a syringe but this is because I find the process more straight forward and less cleaning but definitely not because there will not be enough yeast to allow for carbonation.

I think they may have been suggesting not to transfer to a secondary vessel and then leave for weeks / months as some people do and older brewing literature often suggests. Even then, unless you are lagering at cold temperatures for a number of months, enough yeast will still be in suspension to carbonate.

I would carry on as planned and see what works for you.

 

[David Woods]

Thanks - I am very interested in the syringe method! could I ask - assuming you have mixed the solution to the quantity for a bulk prime, what rate of solution per 500ml bottle do you use.

 

[pms67]

I simply sprinkle in the dextrose to the FV and wait 5 mins, not even a stir although I am 100% certain I am the only one on here doing it, I’m far too lazy to prime each bottle

 

[pms67]

And for what it’s worth your lhbs is wrong, don’t worry

 

[Mavroz]

Yep, they are wrong.
I transfer my brew onto a Dex Sugar solution in a secondary vessel (bulk priming) every brew before bottling.
Never had any carbing issues.

 

[The Baron]

I wouldn't be buying anything else from them with that kind of advice. What they should have being saying is how to transfer without getting too much oxygen into the secondary and how to disperse the sugar/solution without doing the same such as racking on top of it. I personally do not do this but use the old measured sugar into bottles as I keg and only bottle whats left usually around 3 bottles.I have even left brews in my FV for 3 weeks and they have still had enough yeast to carbonate granted it may take a little longer than the usual 2 weeks in the FV but what absolute tosh they are talking. To contradict my initial statement we should be trying to support our LHBS wherever possible as we usually get good advice from them not statements that are totally what you expect from a novice

 

[Ghillie]

They are wrong.

FV > bottling bucket (batch prime is easiest) > bottles.

95% of yeasts will remain in suspension in enough quantities to carb your beers.

A Ferrari salesman isn't always the best driver...

 

[DavidDetroit]

Yeah, that's messed up. Hopefully, it was just one person telling you that and the rest know what they're talking about.
1. transfer straight to bottles and add sugar to each. You're still going to siphon whatever particles are suspended into your beer.
2. siphon to bottling bucket with a hose long enough that it can rest alongside the bottom of the bottling bucket, creating a swirling motion on it's own. Add the sugar/water or sugar/beer solution without splashing. This way you get the sugar mixed in and very little disturbance.

 

[dad_of_jon]

There you go. HBF 5 - LHBS 0

 

[Brew_DD2]

They are talking utter arse. Quite concerning that a business whose focus is on brewing, seemingly has such a poor grasp of how brewing works.

 

[David Woods]

Thank you all for your great info! - just to be fair to LHBS they may well have totally misunderstood my inane ramblings so I will give them the benefit of the doubt - I appreciate all the help.

Dave

 

[chrisb8]

I batch prime in a bottling bucket but am now also intrigued by the syringe method...

 

[Oneflewover]

I batch prime in a bottling bucket but am now also intrigued by the syringe method...

This is how I bottle prime. I use the 5ml kids Calpol syringes and multiply 5ml X however many 500ml bottles I am using (typically 40 ish). Make up a sugar / boiling water solution (with however much sugar you want to use) to the 200ml (ish) in a measuring jug. This is a bit of an art, but I've got it nailed. I then blast this in the microwave and squirt 5ml into each bottle with the sanitised syringe. I find it quick and easy, and I feel more confident that I'm not picking oxygen through unnecessary transfer of the beer.

 

[David Woods]

I like the idea of priming with a syringe like this but my memory comes back of my first bottle priming session using carb drops, I started wondering "did I put drops in that bottle - should I add more" then BANG! or flat beer. This is why I think I will do the bulk priming - do it once! - then of course it will be "did I bulk prime that bucket or should I ..."

The joys of getting old and a failing memory bank!!

 

[Ben034]

I like the idea of priming with a syringe like this but my memory comes back of my first bottle priming session using carb drops, I started wondering "did I put drops in that bottle - should I add more" then BANG! or flat beer. This is why I think I will do the bulk priming - do it once! - then of course it will be "did I bulk prime that bucket or should I ..."

The joys of getting old and a failing memory bank!!

I think if you do full 40 bottle batches than bulk priming is probably the most convenient. I tried it for a while but didn't like the extra sanitisation of the bottling bucket and then cleaning it up after along with the fermenter. I do 9l batches so priming 20 or so bottles with a syringe is quick and less messy for me.

 

[David Woods]

Update. Since asking for this information I have bulk primed 3 batches of brew - not checked the last one yet but this method works really well and I have been using this priming calculator - http://www.kotmf.com/tools/prime.php - which works well for me. All batches - even the dry hop ones have cleared perfectly so anyone thinking of bulk priming give it a go.

 

[An Ankoù]

I rack into secondary at the end of fermentation and after any diacetyl rest. I do my dry hopping and cold crash (if done) in the secondary. There's no reason why, especially if you have a flocculant yeast , you can't bottle from the primary FV in fact I might go back to this with some beers (it's easy to get into a habit). I don't batch prime and I don't prime with syrup- I prime with table sugar (crystals) or with brown sugar straight into the bottle. The effect of using crystalline sugar is that it makes the beer fizz (provides nucleation points for effervescence) and this tends to purge the bottle of oxygen and fill the head-space with carbon dioxide.
I mentioned this in a thread about oxidation of beer. I've never had that problem.

 

[ExpatBrewer]

There's no reason why, especially if you have a flocculant yeast , you can't bottle from the primary FV in fact I might go back to this with some beers

This has now become my preferred method. This priming method works incredibly well, particularly if you can cold crash and use high flocculating yeasts as well. I simply make up a sugar solution - the requisite amount of sugar dissolved in boiled water, pour it into the primary FV and then give it time to disperse, which in my case is around an hour by the time I've got other things orgainised ready for bottling.

It saves a worthwhile amount of time. I used to use a secondary as a priming bucket but that's a whole other FV that needed to be cleaned and prep'd and of course there was always that extra small risk of oxidation and contamination. Bottling priming, either with funneling in sugar, carb drops or the syringe method etc are all OK but still take more time in comparison to bulk priming in the primary. It's proven to be a very effective, time-efficient method and I'm very happy not to be faffing about with those other priming methods anymore.

 

[RichK]

I always decant to a second FV for priming & bottling. Not failed to carbonate yet.