Petition for a new General Elections

[Brew_DD2]

they are not tough calls they are the easy options, just like giving pay rises to their union paymasters, I want to see them going after the big boys offshore accounts, oil and gas slapped with wind fall tax then made to pay for the damage they have done to the planet why should we pay

Politically, they are not easy options. The changes to the Winter Fuel Allowance in particular has been deeply unpopular. I share your desire for the government to chase the big boys to pay their fair share of taxes. Something that they all appear to be afraid of doing.

I'd also like to see them have the balls to introduce a Wealth Tax.

 

[old dog new tricks]

they are not tough calls they are the easy options, just like giving pay rises to their union paymasters, I want to see them going after the big boys offshore accounts, oil and gas slapped with wind fall tax then made to pay for the damage they have done to the planet why should we pay

Ok I take offence at the pay rise to union masters comments, it was proved the pay deals actually cost less then that the ongoing strike action in some areas. The civil service is not union driven far from it but they offered a fair deal (still less than private sector) to those who suffered pay freezes for decades and utterly trashed by previous governments.

Do I like everything Labour are doing hell no! but the pay deals were fair in my opinion for reference my equivalent role in private sector is paid about 30-40% more, my former colleagues have demonstrated this being a lower grade then myself but getting a fair bit more! fair play to them but I do not think a government realising it was destroying public service and taking action was bowing to unions. You cannot tell me the the unions are onboard with winter fuel debacle or the money grab against farmers?

yes they have hard decisions but they should have made the electorate aware of this before taking their votes.

What concerns me is the things will have to get worse before they get better statements form the government, simply put many are already at breaking point, the working poor is class the tory's created but currently things are not improving, the number of people in full time employment with a mortgage but forced to use food banks in my area at least is truly mind blowing. I assumed the core user would be elderly or out of work etc, but nope not anymore.

Yes inflation has slowed but its still inflation food still gets MORE expensive that it was and does not go back down, energy keeps rising, this is not sustainable incomes are not keeping up with cost of living no matter how you dress it up, so as said he do we keep going if things are to get worse before they get better?

 

[old dog new tricks]

Politically, they are not easy options. The changes to the Winter Fuel Allowance in particular has been deeply unpopular. I share your desire for the government to chase the big boys to pay their fair share of taxes. Something that they all appear to be afraid of doing.

I'd also like to see them have the balls to introduce a Wealth Tax.

I agree with wealth tax but my issue is where you set the thresholds, as you are aware in Scotland the rates differ from the wider UK for income tax for example.

The pensioner winter allowance is good example the crazy way the thresh holds work punish anyone who paid into a works pension (as they were told to all their days) this removes them receiving Pension Credit, Housing Benefit and Council Tax Support and now Winter Fuel Allowance. net result a pensioner with modest income on top of state pension not only pays tax on it but loses all these, resulting in a far lower level of expendable cash.

The Farmers protests were not so much around the concept but the thresholds where it was applied this is where the government has been clever and not raised taxes just widened the net.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I want to see them going after the big boys oil and gas slapped with wind fall tax

This is what i was expecting as they made enough noise about it in PMQ's when the Conservative were in power and as soon as they get in they nail the pensioners instead .

 

[Brew_DD2]

I agree with wealth tax but my issue is where you set the thresholds, as you are aware in Scotland the rates differ from the wider UK for income tax for example.

The pensioner winter allowance is good example the crazy way the thresh holds work punish anyone who paid into a works pension (as they were told to all their days) this removes them receiving Pension Credit, Housing Benefit and Council Tax Support and now Winter Fuel Allowance. net result a pensioner with modest income on top of state pension not only pays tax on it but loses all these, resulting in a far lower level of expendable cash.

The Farmers protests were not so much around the concept but the thresholds where it was applied this is where the government has been clever and not raised taxes just widened the net.

It seems that the word "taper" isn't in their vocabulary.

 

[An Ankoù]

This is what i was expecting as they made enough noise about it in PMQ's when the Conservative were in power and as soon as they get in they nail the pensioners instead .

This is complete rubbish about pensioners. What isn't widely publicised is that pensions have risen by 18.6% over the last two years due to the triple lock and temporary glitches in inflation. That's WELL over £1000 for those on the ordinary State Pension. Those with additional pensions have gained even more. This is really "luck of the draw stuff" if the Lettuce Lady hadn't gone mad we wouldn't have had half of that. How many other sectors have had a rise of 18.6% to cover inflation? Of course some people a genuinely struggling and there a pension top-ups available- many of which are not being claimed.
What used to rile me is that some dodgy ex civil servant, or bent copper on a cracking pension was using this for his Xmas píss up! Did you know that pensioners living abroad in some countries, Italy for example, still got this fuel allowance. It was never payable to pensioners in France or Spain, but the choice of countries seems entirely random.
There were 12.7 million people in the UK receiving state pension in 2023. Saving £200 each save the public purse £2½ billion. The Triple lock of say £1500 over the last 2 years has cost £19 billion and the 4.1% increase in 2025 will mean that all those on the full state pension will be about £430 better off.
So I don't buy this rubbish about clobbering pensioners. They've never had it so good. Of course, the poorest will always be poor, but £200 isn't going to change much I'd rather see the money saved going to those who really need it.
And don't start on farmers.

 

[Brew_DD2]

This is complete rubbish about pensioners. What isn't widely publicised is that pensions have risen by 18.6% over the last two years due to the triple lock and temporary glitches in inflation. That's WELL over £1000 for those on the ordinary State Pension. Those with additional pensions have gained even more. This is really "luck of the draw stuff" if the Lettuce Lady hadn't gone mad we wouldn't have had half of that. How many other sectors have had a rise of 18.6% to cover inflation? Of course some people a genuinely struggling and there a pension top-ups available- many of which are not being claimed.
What used to rile me is that some dodgy ex civil servant, or bent copper on a cracking pension was using this for his Xmas píss up! Did you know that pensioners living abroad in some countries, Italy for example, still got this fuel allowance. It was never payable to pensioners in France or Spain, but the choice of countries seems entirely random.
There were 12.7 million people in the UK receiving state pension in 2023. Saving £200 each save the public purse £2½ billion. The Triple lock of say £1500 over the last 2 years has cost £19 billion and the 4.1% increase in 2025 will mean that all those on the full state pension will be about £430 better off.
So I don't buy this rubbish about clobbering pensioners. They've never had it so good. Of course, the poorest will always be poor, but £200 isn't going to change much I'd rather see the money saved going to those who really need it.
And don't start on farmers.

At risk at starting an intergenerational feud, what is it that young people are always told? "You need to plan your finances better." "You waste too much money on avocados and Lattés". "Get a second/another job".

There was certainly no triple lock on public sector pay when it was frozen for a decade. But of course, The Conservatives knew exactly what side their bread was buttered on.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Chippy_Tea said:
This is what i was expecting as they made enough noise about it in PMQ's when the Conservative were in power and as soon as they get in they nail the pensioners instead .

This is complete rubbish about pensioners. What isn't widely publicised is that pensions have risen by 18.6% over the last two years due to the triple lock and temporary glitches in inflation.

"Rubbish" Really. - an estimated 130,000 pensioners miss out on Pension Credit because they are just £500 over the annual income threshold or £9.62 per week.
This means they would potentially be better off if they had a lower income but qualified for Pension Credit and the Winter Fuel Payment.



Winter Fuel Payment will be axed for millions of pensioners after MP vote

Plans to cut the Winter Fuel Payment will go ahead, after opposition MPs were overruled in a House of Commons vote today

Critics of the government’s decision have pointed out that Pension Credit often goes unclaimed, as many pensioners aren’t aware they qualify for the benefit and will miss out on much-needed energy support as a result.

What’s more, thousands of pensioners who just miss out on Pension Credit could fall off a financial cliff-edge when the Winter Fuel Payment is removed.

Research from data and analytics company Policy in Practice suggests an estimated 130,000 pensioners miss out on Pension Credit because they are just £500 over the annual income threshold, or £9.62 per week. This means they would potentially be better off if they had a lower income but qualified for Pension Credit and the Winter Fuel Payment.

The government has emphasised that this was not a decision it wanted to make, but Starmer told the BBC’s Laura Kuenssberg this weekend that he was “going to have to be unpopular” in order to “fix the foundations” of the UK economy. The cut is expected to save the government around £1.4 billion a year.

In the past, Labour has criticised previous governments that have looked at changing the rules around the Winter Fuel Payment. In 2017, the party suggested 3,850 elderly people could die as a result of a similar pledge made in Theresa May’s election manifesto.

https://moneyweek.com/personal-finance/will-labour-u-turn-on-winter-fuel-payment-cut

 

[An Ankoù]

"Rubbish" Really. - an estimated 130,000 pensioners miss out on Pension Credit because they are just £500 over the annual income threshold or £9.62 per week.
This means they would potentially be better off if they had a lower income but qualified for Pension Credit and the Winter Fuel Payment.



Winter Fuel Payment will be axed for millions of pensioners after MP vote

Plans to cut the Winter Fuel Payment will go ahead, after opposition MPs were overruled in a House of Commons vote today

Critics of the government’s decision have pointed out that Pension Credit often goes unclaimed, as many pensioners aren’t aware they qualify for the benefit and will miss out on much-needed energy support as a result.

What’s more, thousands of pensioners who just miss out on Pension Credit could fall off a financial cliff-edge when the Winter Fuel Payment is removed.

Research from data and analytics company Policy in Practice suggests an estimated 130,000 pensioners miss out on Pension Credit because they are just £500 over the annual income threshold, or £9.62 per week. This means they would potentially be better off if they had a lower income but qualified for Pension Credit and the Winter Fuel Payment.

The government has emphasised that this was not a decision it wanted to make, but Starmer told the BBC’s Laura Kuenssberg this weekend that he was “going to have to be unpopular” in order to “fix the foundations” of the UK economy. The cut is expected to save the government around £1.4 billion a year.

In the past, Labour has criticised previous governments that have looked at changing the rules around the Winter Fuel Payment. In 2017, the party suggested 3,850 elderly people could die as a result of a similar pledge made in Theresa May’s election manifesto.

https://moneyweek.com/personal-finance/will-labour-u-turn-on-winter-fuel-payment-cut

Yeah, yeah. We know. And I agree. State instruments are always blunt tools although they could sharpened somewhat by getting rid of these stupid cut-off points and making up the difference to what the individual would have got if he earned theepence halfpenny a week less. It still doesn't justify paying an allowance to all those "rich" pensioners who are just going to raise a glass to the DWP and spaff it up against the wall. The measure of good government is how that saving is redistributed to ensure the worst off won't suffer. And there'll still be some who slip through the net.
Oh, and several thousand pensioners are going to die this winter. That doesn't surprise me. I'd like to know how many are going to die as a direct consequence of not getting the fuel allowance.
Yep, I still think it's unmitigated drivel. Emotional claptrap by the right-leaning press and its respective puppet masters to provoke an emotional response from a good-hearted public instead of saying. Let's identify the poorest 10%, (number picked at random, but you get my drift) give them a bit more than they would have had anyway and then plough the rest into the NHS. This is how you do a national economy, not something based on the principles of East Enders ans sound bites.

 

[old dog new tricks]

At risk at starting an intergenerational feud, what is it that young people are always told? "You need to plan your finances better." "You waste too much money on avocados and Lattés". "Get a second/another job".

There was certainly no triple lock on public sector pay when it was frozen for a decade. But of course, The Conservatives knew exactly what side their bread was buttered on

This is complete rubbish about pensioners. What isn't widely publicised is that pensions have risen by 18.6% over the last two years due to the triple lock and temporary glitches in inflation. That's WELL over £1000 for those on the ordinary State Pension. Those with additional pensions have gained even more. This is really "luck of the draw stuff" if the Lettuce Lady hadn't gone mad we wouldn't have had half of that. How many other sectors have had a rise of 18.6% to cover inflation? Of course some people a genuinely struggling and there a pension top-ups available- many of which are not being claimed.
What used to rile me is that some dodgy ex civil servant, or bent copper on a cracking pension was using this for his Xmas píss up! Did you know that pensioners living abroad in some countries, Italy for example, still got this fuel allowance. It was never payable to pensioners in France or Spain, but the choice of countries seems entirely random.
There were 12.7 million people in the UK receiving state pension in 2023. Saving £200 each save the public purse £2½ billion. The Triple lock of say £1500 over the last 2 years has cost £19 billion and the 4.1% increase in 2025 will mean that all those on the full state pension will be about £430 better off.
So I don't buy this rubbish about clobbering pensioners. They've never had it so good. Of course, the poorest will always be poor, but £200 isn't going to change much I'd rather see the money saved going to those who really need it.
And don't start on farmers.

Sorry going to have to disagree the dodgy ex civil servant or bent copper is an outdated stereotype the final salary scheme ceased on 2015 the civil service pension is not the luxury it was once seen as.
I think you miss the point being punished because you invested in your works scheme (at that time not seen a private pension but a works scheme) you still paid your full national insurance and paid tax all your days, but now are banned from winter allowance up here in Scotland is IS colder just a geographical fact, the impact here is harder felt. Older people DO feel the cold more sorry just a medical fact so tho stay warm they need to spend more on energy that does not discriminate same price for all. To be clear am not against the idea of tailoring benefits, but as said before the hard cut off point actually distorts this out of all proportion, if you fall bellow the cut off you get pension credit, housing benefit, council tax support, reduced phone. broad packages etc AND you get the winter allowance. Go over that threshold you get taxed and ZERO benefits no access to reduced phone etc. This has been going on for years now and the idea that UK pensioner are all rich is frankly insulting.
Yes some may be lucky enough to be wealthy but its not a huge amount, the fact that Scottish Labour want to overturn the winter allowance is proof is not fir and just measure in my eyes.
I agree if you are lucky enough to live abroad why should you get something designed to offset the UK weather!
On wider point the way benefit thresh holds are calculated needs to be changed all the benefits and reductions should be taken into account and calculated, likewise household incomes should be calculated against essential out going ie mortgage and council tax that would radically change the outlook. Speaking personally if i was out of work or classed not able to work my expendable income would actually increase!
The system is deeply broken and needs overhauled example a divorced mother can claim at least 20% of ex partners NET income if they have kids, BUT she does not have this included in benefit calculation, so gets paid on top of said benefits, and reductions, if the father wants joint access has to pay full whack for bigger house bigger council tax and so on and ends up worse off for working full time than the mother who does not work.
Yes that an extreme example but its fact, sadly

 

[An Ankoù]

Sorry going to have to disagree the dodgy ex civil servant or bent copper is an outdated stereotype the final salary scheme ceased on 2015 the civil service pension is not the luxury it was once seen as.

So most pensioners are drawing under the old system, then. Aren't they.

 

[old dog new tricks]

So most pensioners are drawing under the old system, then. Aren't they.

By then the final salaries had already been hammered with pay freezes.

proof of this few friends who retired in last 18 months were given the option to go final salary or the new Alpha career average system, such has been downward spiral in public pay for the first time ever the final salary was worth less than the Alpha, i was a TU pensioners adviser in my old career and had never seen this ever! The age of a fat pension has long gone.

The effect of the cliff edge threshold pushes many into abject poverty as stated in the post above many would be better never had paid into a pension and spent more early in life this policy is not fair full stop no matter how you try dress it up

 

[An Ankoù]

Sorry going to have to disagree the dodgy ex civil servant or bent copper is an outdated stereotype the final salary scheme ceased on 2015 the civil service pension is not the luxury it was once seen as.
I think you miss the point being punished because you invested in your works scheme (at that time not seen a private pension but a works scheme) you still paid your full national insurance and paid tax all your days, but now are banned from winter allowance up here in Scotland is IS colder just a geographical fact, the impact here is harder felt. Older people DO feel the cold more sorry just a medical fact so tho stay warm they need to spend more on energy that does not discriminate same price for all. To be clear am not against the idea of tailoring benefits, but as said before the hard cut off point actually distorts this out of all proportion, if you fall bellow the cut off you get pension credit, housing benefit, council tax support, reduced phone. broad packages etc AND you get the winter allowance. Go over that threshold you get taxed and ZERO benefits no access to reduced phone etc. This has been going on for years now and the idea that UK pensioner are all rich is frankly insulting.
Yes some may be lucky enough to be wealthy but its not a huge amount, the fact that Scottish Labour want to overturn the winter allowance is proof is not fir and just measure in my eyes.
I agree if you are lucky enough to live abroad why should you get something designed to offset the UK weather!
On wider point the way benefit thresh holds are calculated needs to be changed all the benefits and reductions should be taken into account and calculated, likewise household incomes should be calculated against essential out going ie mortgage and council tax that would radically change the outlook. Speaking personally if i was out of work or classed not able to work my expendable income would actually increase!
The system is deeply broken and needs overhauled example a divorced mother can claim at least 20% of ex partners NET income if they have kids, BUT she does not have this included in benefit calculation, so gets paid on top of said benefits, and reductions, if the father wants joint access has to pay full whack for bigger house bigger council tax and so on and ends up worse off for working full time than the mother who does not work.
Yes that an extreme example but its fact, sadlye

We're not talking about all the ill of the benefits system. We're talking specifically about the fuel allowance. Yeah, the system is in need of a root and branch overhaul, but that;s not the scope of this discussion. I'm a pensioner. I drew my teacher's pension in 2016 based on final salary. Had I been a teacher all my working life I'd be wallowing in it, but I had more exciting things to do and only got into the system in my mid 40s in order to have a decent pension to fall back on. Nevertheless, I have more money than I need and so consider myself a rich man for the first time in my life. I'm still amazed to find money going into my account when I haven't been out to work! But in no way is it a benefit. I've contributed all my working life and so have my employers; a decent pension was always part of the rewards package that goes with the job. For those who haven't had the opportunity to work all their lives in a decent job then perhaps it can be classed as a benefit. I certainly don't begrudge them a penny of it. But I do begrudge the "spaffers" (good old Boris. The only right thing he ever did or said was "spaff").

 

[The Baron]

This is complete rubbish about pensioners. What isn't widely publicised is that pensions have risen by 18.6% over the last two years due to the triple lock and temporary glitches in inflation. That's WELL over £1000 for those on the ordinary State Pension. Those with additional pensions have gained even more. This is really "luck of the draw stuff" if the Lettuce Lady hadn't gone mad we wouldn't have had half of that. How many other sectors have had a rise of 18.6% to cover inflation? Of course some people a genuinely struggling and there a pension top-ups available- many of which are not being claimed.
What used to rile me is that some dodgy ex civil servant, or bent copper on a cracking pension was using this for his Xmas píss up! Did you know that pensioners living abroad in some countries, Italy for example, still got this fuel allowance. It was never payable to pensioners in France or Spain, but the choice of countries seems entirely random.
There were 12.7 million people in the UK receiving state pension in 2023. Saving £200 each save the public purse £2½ billion. The Triple lock of say £1500 over the last 2 years has cost £19 billion and the 4.1% increase in 2025 will mean that all those on the full state pension will be about £430 better off.
So I don't buy this rubbish about clobbering pensioners. They've never had it so good. Of course, the poorest will always be poor, but £200 isn't going to change much I'd rather see the money saved going to those who really need it.
And don't start on farmers.

I think you will find the triple lock was put in place to protect the pension after many years of dismal rises for pensioners which eroded the spending power of them.
Yes it has done its job in the last couple of years but if you look at the state pension rises since 2000 it is only making some of the ground back that was lost with some years no rises at all.
https://www.redbridge.gov.uk/pensions/pension-increase-yearly-increase-table/
look at this table and see who is talking rubbish do not forget that most of these people have worked and contributed for 35 years plus to get the full state pension unlike the train drivers

The pension increase from 8 April 2024 is 6.7%​

Your LGPS pension changes each April in line with the Consumer Price Index (CPI).

The percentage increase is set by HM Treasury under the Pension (Increase) act 1971 and is based on the CPI over the 12 months to the previous September. HM Treasury issue a Pension Increase (Review) Order confirming the percentage. The Council have no powers to increase pensions beyond HM Treasury orders.

the pensions increase is payable from the first Monday following the 6 April, if the 6th is not the the first Monday.

The change to your pension is detailed on your April payslip. It is posted to your home address at the end of April.

The table details the percentage increase in previous years.

Pension increase yearly table.

 

[An Ankoù]

By then the final salaries had already been hammered with pay freezes.

proof of this few friends who retired in last 18 months were given the option to go final salary or the new Alpha career average system, such has been downward spiral in public pay for the first time ever the final salary was worth less than the Alpha, i was a TU pensioners adviser in my old career and had never seen this ever! The age of a fat pension has long gone.

Oh come on.
None of these people are going to be seriously affected by not getting £200. Those who are on the breadline, who haven't got the required number of years contributions etc etc are the ones for whom it'll make a difference, not those who consult a pensions adviser, TU or not.

 

[An Ankoù]

I think you will find the triple lock was put in place to protect the pension after many years of dismal rises for pensioners which eroded the spending power of them.
Yes it has done its job in the last couple of years but if you look at the state pension rises since 2000 it is only making some of the ground back that was lost with some years no rises at all.
https://www.redbridge.gov.uk/pensions/pension-increase-yearly-increase-table/
look at this table and see who is talking rubbish do not forget that most of these people have worked and contributed for 35 years plus to get the full state pension unlike the train drivers

Yes, agreed. But so what?
And train drivers. coppers, firemen etc chose that balance of rewards to have a little bit less in the pay packet, but a more secure future. Well, that didn't work out perfectly with some sectors wanting the best of both words.
None of this justifies giving £200 or £300 a year to 1 million odd people just because they've reached a certain age. The idea's ludicrous.

You're surely not going to pin the whole burden of pension injustices and excess on the winter fuel allowance, surely.

 

[Rodcx500z]

This is complete rubbish about pensioners. What isn't widely publicised is that pensions have risen by 18.6% over the last two years due to the triple lock and temporary glitches in inflation. That's WELL over £1000 for those on the ordinary State Pension. Those with additional pensions have gained even more. This is really "luck of the draw stuff" if the Lettuce Lady hadn't gone mad we wouldn't have had half of that. How many other sectors have had a rise of 18.6% to cover inflation? Of course some people a genuinely struggling and there a pension top-ups available- many of which are not being claimed.
What used to rile me is that some dodgy ex civil servant, or bent copper on a cracking pension was using this for his Xmas píss up! Did you know that pensioners living abroad in some countries, Italy for example, still got this fuel allowance. It was never payable to pensioners in France or Spain, but the choice of countries seems entirely random.
There were 12.7 million people in the UK receiving state pension in 2023. Saving £200 each save the public purse £2½ billion. The Triple lock of say £1500 over the last 2 years has cost £19 billion and the 4.1% increase in 2025 will mean that all those on the full state pension will be about £430 better off.
So I don't buy this rubbish about clobbering pensioners. They've never had it so good. Of course, the poorest will always be poor, but £200 isn't going to change much I'd rather see the money saved going to those who really need it.
And don't start on farmers.

An you missed this bit off If you retire abroad to any other country, you will not get any annual increases in your state pension. you need to be in the house

 

[The Baron]

I never mentioned the winter fuel it was a reply to your statement about how well pensioners have done in the last 2 years.
These people had endured well below inflation rises for years hence the Pensions Commission report of 2006 was done to try and protect their eroded pensions.
13 of those years on the report where below 3% and some at 0% again a short sighted reply to the people who have been the backbone of this country for 35 years plus.

In fact they have done that well some qualify for pension credit which was a benefit set up to supplement their meagre pensions or those that actually apply for it but many are too proud to apply and these are the ones that will miss the fuel allowance and possibly become the Labour stats of how many may die without it Labours self confessed figures prior to being elected.
“Are there no workhouses? Are there no prisons?” is a quote from A Christmas Carol by Charles Dickens. Ebenezer Starmer says this line to a charity collector after refusing to donate to them. Scrooge believes that the poor should be left to the care of prisons and workhouses, and that if they can't go there, they should die to "decrease the surplus population".
Very apt quote at this time of the year

 

[An Ankoù]

An you missed this bit off If you retire abroad to any other country, you will not get any annual increases in your state pension. you need to be in the house

That's not true, @Rodcx500z . Some countries you do and some countries you don't.

How your pension is affected​

Your State Pension will only increase each year if you live in:

• the European Economic Area (EEA)
• Gibraltar
• Switzerland
• countries that have a social security agreement with the UK (but you cannot get increases in Canada or New Zealand)

You will not get yearly increases if you live outside these countries.
Your pension will go up to the current rate if you return to live in the UK.

 

[Rodcx500z]

Lets not forget the state pension is not a benefit