Oats and Oxidation

[gerald8_kop]

Morning all

Will keep it shortish but was hopeful of some advice regards oats and to a lesser extent wheat when brewing without closed transfer or kegs.

Is there a general rule of thumb regards using oats without oxygen protection? Ie, a percentage of grist bill after which oxidation become a real threat/more noticeable in the final product? Say 5 percent? Or are you running a noticeable risk regardless of whether 1 percent or 10 percent and thus should try to remove it from the recipe (lactose? carapils?) or find something else to brew?

And does the recipe affect it? Would a small amount in a light beer result in the same level of risk as a dark?

I don't have the room to rack under pressure and in anycase have to bottle most my beer (in conjunction with a 5L minikeg).

Thanks!

 

[iz_g]

My most brewed recipe is an oatmeal stout with oats as 10% of the bill, and I've never taken any precautions against oxidisation and never had any problems.

Maybe someone more knowledgable can comment on lighter beers? I've always taken it that oxidisation in general isn't really a risk in naturally conditioned beers since the yeast will 'feed' on the oxygen.

 

[The Baron]

What makes you ask this question? have you heard or been told that using oats causes oxidation I am very curious as I have never heard anything regards oats causing a issue.

 

[Moe]

What makes you ask this question? have you heard or been told that using oats causes oxidation I am very curious as I have never heard anything regards oats causing a issue.

It is mentioned in the Greg Hughes book on the oatmeal stout recipe.

 

[Leon103]

Oats doesn't cause oxidation, Oxygen does. Limit Oxygen and don't worry.

 

[The Baron]

I think if you read the Brewers Tip on that recipe it says that you should be careful not to introduce extra oxygen in the brew through splashing which is general guidance with any beer whether it has oats in it or not as it can make the oats go stale. Splashing is a No No in any recipe as it can cause oxygenation/staleness giving a wet cardboard taste to the beer and sometimes a brown discoloration and oats are not he cause of any oxygenation

 

[gerald8_kop]

Thanks for the replies

I ask because NEIPAs are always highlighted as being sensitive to oxidation thanks to alot of oats (manganese levels) and opening the FV for multiple dry hops. I've seen mention elsewhere too of people having failed stouts due to the use of oats for a creamy texture.

Whilst careful to limit oxygen ingress, when bottling there is only so much you can do. Likewise when adding hops/fruit or cold crashing. I have done about ten brews and used a small % of oats in probably a third of them without - notable - issue but wanted to know more when evaluating recipes. Obviously not noticing an issue doesn't mean they couldn't have still been better.

I own a stainless steel Brew Builder FV with an air tight seal and blowoff hose, I introduce hops or fruit gently and quickly, I rack onto the priming sugar in a bottling bucket via a pump to avoid agitation, I keg what I can, and I don't leave excessive headspace in my bottles. So I'm as mindful as I can be without going down a fermzilla type route which I have no space for.

So I just wanted to know more really and to help myself evaluate which recipes are worth attempting and which should await a kit upgrade down the line.

Edit: I do all my cold-side fruit and hop additions in the primary FV too.

 

[The Baron]

There’s a ton of hop oils in a NEIPA due to the hop schedule used to allow the biotransformation that gives one its haze(along with high-protein malts). Hop oils are sensitive to oxidation but also the proteins that attribute to haze will eventually drop out the longer it sits before drinking when kegged. I have never had a problem with stouts and I have done plenty with loads of oats in them but in my opinion oxidisation is down to bad practice i.e splashing unnecessarily transferring to secondary vessels and it still points towards the terpenes in hop oils that easily oxidise. I personally do not pressure transfer at this moment but if you think that is what you have to do it but many good beers have been made for many years without this process being used up until recently. This will obviously help regards oxidising but Neipa's etc can be made without this process as long as you are more vigilant re introducing extra oxygen

 

[foxy]

I think you will find that those brewing NEIPA's put the blame on the oats because of the higher content of manganese in the oats. What they aren't taking into consideration that the bulk of manganese from the grist including the malt stays in the grain after the mash is completed.
The problem is from dry hopping, and I believe that pellets are the biggest culprit. Don't blame the oats, as baron says there are plenty of stouts brewed, using using just as many oats as in a NEIPA without any problem.
There is an article in the Journal of the American Society of Brewing Chemists by Charlie Bamforth.
Maybe type the key words into Google, 'manganese, hops, oats and brewing, technical papers.'

 

[gerald8_kop]

Thanks both, that's super helpful and good news to boot since I can dial down my paranoia a bit! Only been doing all grain about six months; I can accept poor beers on account of mistakes made during the brew but it would be even more frustrating had it been the recipe at fault before I'd even began.

Hopefully any other readers have found something of use within this thread too.