No Pressure

[Mr Bear]

Back to home brewing after many years and have done a Wherry kit brew. Put it in a brand new King Keg and tested after 3 days by pulling off a quarter pint and all seemed well, even liked the taste at that point. However yesterday was the grand opening after 2 weeks and was gutted as it made a slight pressure noise then just trickled out! I put a co2 bulb in and was totally baffled by what was happening. I had this problem when i tested barrel with water and just cant seem to get the gas to go in. The first attempt i screwed the holder as far as it would go but nothing happened until i started to unscrew then heard a hiss so stopped but still no pressure. Had various attempts but no joy just wasted bulbs. Had loud noise like a pressure cooker going off and vapour was rising up and my final attempt i thought had worked as i stopped as soon as i heard noise and holder and bulb went very cold but to no avail. So wondered if anyone could give me a idiots guide to how it should work or maybe I've got a faulty valve on cap? in all this the beer is very nice just flat. Was so looking forward to having my own beer again and feel as flat as the brew now!! Any help or advice would be most welcome.

 

[cushyno]

Take a look at the rubber seal on the safety valve, is it seated correctly. Is the safety valve fitting tight enough? Check the cap for cracks. Use vaseline on the sealing faces of the cap. Check for any scratches or irregularities in the sealing face of the PB, it should be perfectly flat, level and smooth.

Your description of the bulb going cold is due to the sudden loss of pressure from the gas exiting the bulb. The pressure cooker sound suggests the gas has gone into the PB and come straight back out of the safety valve.

 

[terrym]

Try this
https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/guide-to-a-standard-home-brew-pressure-barrel.67042/Otherwise any new or returned homebrewer reading this who has just bought a PB, and not had one before, is advised to check it over before they put beer in it. PBs are notorious for leaking from any number of place even from new and investing an hour or so of your time may save a lot of frustration later on if your PB won't hold pressure or the dispensing tap is dripping beer under pressure. One member even found the main cap to PB gasket was missing from his new PB.
And if you have put your beer in it and are relying on priming sugar to pressurise the PB don't leave it two weeks before taking the first sample, draw the off a little at about day 3 to see if the PB is holding pressure

 

[Mr Bear]

Take a look at the rubber seal on the safety valve, is it seated correctly. Is the safety valve fitting tight enough? Check the cap for cracks. Use vaseline on the sealing faces of the cap. Check for any scratches or irregularities in the sealing face of the PB, it should be perfectly flat, level and smooth.

Your description of the bulb going cold is due to the sudden loss of pressure from the gas exiting the bulb. The pressure cooker sound suggests the gas has gone into the PB and come straight back out of the safety valve.

I took the cap off to check and gas escaped. Everything seems ok i lubricated it before and the ring is in fast. any idea why the bulb doesn't go off until unscrewed and should i stop as soon as i hear noise? and is pressure instant?

 

[cushyno]

I took the cap off to check and gas escaped. Everything seems ok i lubricated it before and the ring is in fast. any idea why the bulb doesn't go off until unscrewed and should i stop as soon as i hear noise? and is pressure instant?

When you screw in the bulb can you hear the co2 entering the PB? At that point before unscrewing the bulb, try pouring a little from the tap. Has the pressure increased? If it has, that's a good sign that the co2 is able to enter the barrel.

Then unscrew the bulb quickly. If this is where all the gas escapes and you lose pressure in the barrel, you may have a problem with a non-return valve (nrv).
I'm not familiar with the king kegs, but non return valves are usually a pin, a ball, or a rubber ring that stops the gas escaping from the way it entered.

You need to check the functioning of the nrv. The may be some manufacturing debris stuck in the valve or behind the seal that prevents sealing fully.

It would be best if you could prove to yourself the nrv works correctly before testing again with another co2 bulb.

 

[terrym]

I think that PB has a leak from somewhere. That's why there was no pressure after two weeks. It might even be from the rubber band PRV as @cushyno suggests. Its nowt to do with capsules themselves. Discharging a capsule into a full leak tight PB should pressurise it and perhaps some gas might be lost out of the PRV since it is instantaneous and there is no time for gas to get dissolved and the small headspace volume is too small to take all the gas before reaching the PRV set point.
My suggestion is if you can get some CO2 into it and pressurise it go round all the PB with soapy water and look for leaks.

 

[Mr Bear]

When you screw in the bulb can you hear the co2 entering the PB? At that point before unscrewing the bulb, try pouring a little from the tap. Has the pressure increased? If it has, that's a good sign that the co2 is able to enter the barrel.

Then unscrew the bulb quickly. If this is where all the gas escapes and you lose pressure in the barrel, you may have a problem with a non-return valve (nrv).
I'm not familiar with the king kegs, but non return valves are usually a pin, a ball, or a rubber ring that stops the gas escaping from the way it entered.

You need to check the functioning of the nrv. The may be some manufacturing debris stuck in the valve or behind the seal that prevents sealing fully.

It would be best if you could prove to yourself the nrv works correctly before testing again with another co2 bulb.

I cant hear anything going in but little white flecks come out whilst the bulb is injecting but still see vapour coming out. The company i bought it from who supplied it with the valve fitted said the pressure cooker noise is what i should hear then to stop turning, but makes no difference still don't get pressure

 

[Mr Bear]

I think that PB has a leak from somewhere. That's why there was no pressure after two weeks. It might even be from the rubber band PRV as @cushyno suggests. Its nowt to do with capsules themselves. Discharging a capsule into a full leak tight PB should pressurise it and perhaps some gas might be lost out of the PRV since it is instantaneous and there is no time for gas to get dissolved and the small headspace volume is too small to take all the gas before reaching the PRV set point.
My suggestion is if you can get some CO2 into it and pressurise it go round all the PB with soapy water and look for leaks.

Thanks for that. but can you tell me when the bulb makes a noise should that be it or do i turn till end of thread ?

 

[cushyno]

You may have more than one problem here. As @terrym points out, you haven't managed to retain pressure over 2 weeks so you may have a general cap or tap sealing issue. However, the co2 injection issue may be separate.

I have a couple of PBs with a Hambleton Bard S30 valve which serves two purposes, co2 entry with a rubber ring non-return valve (inside of cap) and pressure release with a seperate rubber ring (outside of cap). There is a small hollow pin that punctures the non-threaded 8g cartridges. I had one PB exhibiting similar problem to yours and I found that the tiny hollow pin was blocked with a tiny grain of dirt. This meant I would puncture the bulb but no co2 went into the barrel. On unscrewing the bulb it simply vented to the air making the bulb and valve fitting frost up. I found the problem by removing the rubber seals and trying to blow through the valve which I couldn't. Once I'd cleared the valve hole with a needle I could easily blow through the hole. Reassembled with rubber seals and vaseline and it's been good for 3 batches since.

 

[Buffers brewery]

Your experience is probably one of those situations when having a pressure gauge fitted to the cap would help as it would confirm (or not) that gas was getting into the PB. I use the S30 type HB fitting so only use the amount of gas I need.

 

[Mr Bear]

You may have more than one problem here. As @terrym points out, you haven't managed to retain pressure over 2 weeks so you may have a general cap or tap sealing issue. However, the co2 injection issue may be separate.

I have a couple of PBs with a Hambleton Bard S30 valve which serves two purposes, co2 entry with a rubber ring non-return valve (inside of cap) and pressure release with a seperate rubber ring (outside of cap). There is a small hollow pin that punctures the non-threaded 8g cartridges. I had one PB exhibiting similar problem to yours and I found that the tiny hollow pin was blocked with a tiny grain of dirt. This meant I would puncture the bulb but no co2 went into the barrel. On unscrewing the bulb it simply vented to the air making the bulb and valve fitting frost up. I found the problem by removing the rubber seals and trying to blow through the valve which I couldn't. Once I'd cleared the valve hole with a needle I could easily blow through the hole. Reassembled with rubber seals and vaseline and it's been good for 3 batches since.

I'll certainly try that thanks. I've emailed the company i bought from to see if they'll at least send me a new cap and valve to try as its the first time I've used it