Pressure Fermentation/Strong Sulphur Smell

[MashBag]

Don't panic.
I've had this issue with MJ M42. Nutrient helps a lot, but I won't use M42 again.
I've had beer which was so " tainted it was undrinkable, but it does clean itself up eventually, even if it takes many months.
I now, add nutrient to all my beers.

The taint can be removed.
Lab analysis will discern the amount present and the appropriate amount of copper sulphate solution added.

Alternatively. Gently stirring with a piece of clean copper pipe until its gone, will do the trick.

Do NOT leave the copper in there.
Do not "lob some in for good measure" copper is reactive, particularly in an acid solution.

 

[An Ankoù]

The taint can be removed.
Lab analysis will discern the amount present and the appropriate amount of copper sulphate solution added.

Alternatively. Gently stirring with a piece of clean copper pipe until its gone, will do the trick.

Do NOT leave the copper in there.
Do not "lob some in for good measure" copper is reactive, particularly in an acid solution.

Thanks, @MashBag , but I won't be adding copper sulphate, bordeaux mixture, rusty nails, bats' wings or anything else to my beer.
Solved the problem, anyway, with year nutrient. I'm not sure what the copper does, but my wort chiller is copper and often stays in the wort for an hour or more until I'm ready to run off into the fermenter. The acid medium doesn't seem to dissolve enough copper to reach anything like a level which would be toxic to the yeast.

 

[Sadfield]

Scrubbing by bubbling CO2 through the beer should remove the sulphur.

 

[MashBag]

Thanks, @MashBag , but I won't be adding copper sulphate, bordeaux mixture, rusty nails, bats' wings or anything else to my beer.
Solved the problem, anyway, with year nutrient. I'm not sure what the copper does, but my wort chiller is copper and often stays in the wort for an hour or more until I'm ready to run off into the fermenter. The acid medium doesn't seem to dissolve enough copper to reach anything like a level which would be toxic to the yeast.

Yup yeast nutrient stops it. I prefer B vitamins or olive oil to DAP.

Copper chilling coil, is a excellent solution you fix any that slipped through.

Copper sulphate is a bit rich for me too but interested to know which way up do you use the bats wings?

 

[Wynne]

@Crafty I sometimes use pressure fermentation either to supress ester formation when brewing lager at ambient temperatures or to avoid having to use priming sugar for carbonation. I always start at atmospheric pressure and only add a spunding valve after the lag phase when the fermentation is established. You could try fermenting a batch in your Chubby (after thorough cleaning/sanitising) with a blow-off tube rather than a spunding valve to establish whether it is the addition of pressure rather than something else that is causing the sulphur smell. Good luck!

 

[dmtaylor]

I am interested in your replies. I have never had a sulphur that is considered normal.

In class it was always referred to as a fault... Can you elaborate please?

Sulphur compounds are highly reactive in the same way that oxygen is highly reactive. They are in the same family on the periodic table of the elements.

Yeast will also reabsorb / use some sulphur as it "cleans up" and enters its dormancy after fermentation is complete.

These changes require a little time to occur. How much time? My experience says about 2 to 4 weeks.

No copper, or nutrients, are needed, 95% of the time, in brewing beer. These tricks are often placebos from the real thing which is just time. I mean... copper does help, but it's also poisonous, so I'd rather not use copper. Nutrient might help, but it might help more only if used at the beginning of fermentation, not so much the end. And malt contains all the nutrients that yeast needs except for zinc. This is why normally you see advocation for nutrients only in cider, mead, and winemaking, because those musts are nutrient deficient, whereas wort has plenty of nutrients naturally such that no additional nutrients are needed, and zinc additions are only needed if you plan to use the same yeast cake over and over for many batches.

 

[Crafty]

@Crafty I sometimes use pressure fermentation either to supress ester formation when brewing lager at ambient temperatures or to avoid having to use priming sugar for carbonation. I always start at atmospheric pressure and only add a spunding valve after the lag phase when the fermentation is established. You could try fermenting a batch in your Chubby (after thorough cleaning/sanitising) with a blow-off tube rather than a spunding valve to establish whether it is the addition of pressure rather than something else that is causing the sulphur smell. Good luck!

That's a good suggestion actually and I hadn't thought of trying that, if I remove the PRV I should be able to insert a bung and airlock there. I had pretty much ruled out sanitation as all my other equipment was used at some stage throughout my latest brew with no issue so far. I guess I could have some nastys in the chubby the point it always seems to go funny or it's the pressure trying this should confirm which is to blame.

On a separate note can anyone recommend a good ale yeast that will cope with slightly higher temperatures. I'm using M44 at the moment which is not recommended to exceed 23 degrees and I'm bang on that at the moment, I don't have a cooling solution in my set up yet so if there was a yeast happy up to say 26-28 that should cover me comfortably during the summer months.

 

[Wynne]

@Crafty I pressure ferment in a 38 litre corny. For a blow off I just put a long pvc or silicon rubber tube on a gas-in disconnect and connect the disconnect to the gas-in post on my fermenter and put the free end of the tube in a container of water. I always flush through both gas-in snd liquid-out posts on the corny with cleaner and sanitiser or strip them to clean and sanitise before use. For ales, I try to time the switch from blow-off to spunding valve to the last 2 or 3 days of fermentation for carbonation as ester flavours from the yeast are usually part of the style. for lagers, I switch as soon as as strong fermentation is established to supress yeast ester production (usually 12-36 hours). Applying top pressure during fermentation is a choice - first decide what you are trying to achieve and adopt a practice that will help deliver it. Some brewers never apply top pressure but ,usually, have the ability to control fermentation temperature and use that to control ester production. Let us know how you get on!

 

[MashBag]

For future readers copper is indeed poisonous but only in excess.

Copper is widely used to resolve these issues.

There is a range of volatile sulfur compounds that can be present in beer & wine, with some contributing positive ‘fruity’ characters, and others responsible for unwanted ‘reductive’ aromas such as ‘rotten egg’, ‘natural gas’ or ‘onion’. If these are found they are generally considered faults.

Copper pipe is a safe and gentle solution.

Copper has be used in this way for centuries in the beverage industry. Whisky stills aren't copper, 'cos they are easy to beat into shape they work to combat sulphur.

And last time I checked you could still buy copper cooling coils (I'm & cfc) without a public health warning.

Just sayin'

 

[dmtaylor]

You're not wrong. :)

 

[aolcot]

On a separate note can anyone recommend a good ale yeast that will cope with slightly higher temperatures. I'm using M44 at the moment which is not recommended to exceed 23 degrees and I'm bang on that at the moment, I don't have a cooling solution in my set up yet so if there was a yeast happy up to say 26-28 that should cover me comfortably during the summer months.

Take a look at Kveik yeast. They can handle temps in excess of 30 degrees so perfect for those without a cooling setup.

 

[Crafty]

Take a look at Kveik yeast. They can handle temps in excess of 30 degrees so perfect for those without a cooling setup.

Perfect, thank you I will check that strain out. Can I ferment it lower than the recommended ranges without issues. This time of the year my brew space fluctuates between 20-24 during the day so I would aim to set my heating to maintain the upper end of that range if not a degree or two higher so the ambient fluctuations shouldn't have an affect.

 

[MashBag]

Kveik is different, and seems also to be marmite (love it or hate it)
Be aware that for the sand recipe you will produce a different result, not necessarily a simple swap out.

 

[The Baron]

Only use Kveik for Hoppyish Pales and IPA's. It throws orange taste which will compliment these styles
For Lagers use Novolager
For Bitters Ales plenty of yeast that will be ok at upto 24c I use Beoir from CML

 

[An Ankoù]

I don't entirely agree, @MashBag and @The Baron. Voss gives a lot of character of its own, but Opshaug is relatively neutral and Lutra is very neutral. I haven't tried the other kveik. I don't like Voss.
Whatever kveik isolate you use, you'll need loads of yeast nutrient.

 

[aolcot]

Totally. Agree with @An Ankoù..
Kviek is an umbrella of a certain yeast type and multiple strains that give different flavour profiles so decide which works for the beer you are intending to brew.
Reason I suggested Kveik is because on paper they really are an ideal yeast for new brewers just starting their journey on making great beer. They show activity/get going very quickly, ferment out quickly, tolerant of under pitching and have a very wide temperature range.. All common areas that new brewers trip over in the early days of finding their feet..

 

[The Baron]

I love Kveik Voss and as I have suggested like most yeasts they have a niche for style and it is IPA and APA's etc which are mainly fruity tropical hops so Voss will compliment those beers.
As with all yeasts it is personal preferences or there would only be one yeast just like hops what one brewer likes another doesn't you will not know unless you have tried them.
I do not like WHC yeasts I have tried but some brewers love them.

 

[An Ankoù]

I love Kveik Voss and as I have suggested like most yeasts they have a niche for style and it is IPA and APA's etc which are mainly fruity tropical hops so Voss will compliment those beers.
As with all yeasts it is personal preferences or there would only be one yeast just like hops what one brewer likes another doesn't you will not know unless you have tried them.
I do not like WHC yeasts I have tried but some brewers love them.

That's worrying about the WHC as I've acquired a sachet of 4 or 5 of them and I'm wondering whether it's worth risking those batches. I think some of them, at least, are kveiks. I might do some small, sample batches.
You're not the only one to have reservations about these.

 

[JockyBrewer]

Solved the problem, anyway, with year nutrient.

Yup yeast nutrient stops it. I prefer B vitamins or olive oil to DAP.

What yeast nutrient, how much and when?

I've had sulphur in the past from some lager yeasts and particularly from hefeweizen yeasts despite adding yeast nutrient in the boil.

 

[The Baron]

Hi AA I used saturated twice and it was not spectacular at all I did not get the "saturated" flavours in both IPA's.
I also used the Banana split in a wheat beer - no Banana flavour at all in fact it was flavourless very close to a drain pour only being a Yorkshire man saved that
I think I started a thread on Banana and WHC I would read that