My beer is okay, but it all tastes the same...

[petkula73]

Just wondered if anyone else knows why this is...

Over the past year I have brewed the following kits:

Brupaks Colne Bitter
Brupaks IPA
Woodefordes Great Eastern
Muntons Smugglers *2
Woodfordes Wherry
Milestone Black Pearl
Milestone Crusader

All these kits have dropped bright and been fine - however, they have all had the same, almost acidic bite to them and all had the same aftertaste, which is a bit unpleasant.

I've not left anything sitting on top of the yeast in the FV for more than around 10 days and have put several of them in to a secondary FV to see if it changed anything. It didn't really.

All the fermenting has been done at around 18-20 degrees so no problem there. I've both barrelled and bottled the beer, but this didn't make much difference.

So, I am wondering is this either something to do with the water (which I have filtered through a Brita filter) or am I using too much steriliser? I've sterlised by filling my fv with warm water and adding 10-12 heaped teaspoons of sterilising and cleaning powder and left for between 10 and 20 mins. After that I've rinsed for around 5 minutes. I've used the same amount of steriliser for the barrels and bottles.

Am I using too much and could this be leading to the aftertaste am I getting across all my beers?

I'm thinking about having a go at all grain later in summer, but I don't want to do it until I can get a kit spot on without any aftertaste first as it's a big investment.

Any help or advice would be really appreciated.

Nick

 

[jamesb]

What sort of aftertaste? Is it cidery, or tcp-ish?

If the former, are you using normal sugar?

If the latter, are you treating the water you use with camden tablets or sodium metabisulphate?

 

[petkula73]

It's not really TCP, but it is very bitter and sticks at the back of your throat. I've not used any sugar as they've all been 3kg all malt kits and I've primed with spray malt when they have gone in to the barrels and bottles.

I've not de-chlorinated the water. Our local water is pretty dire, so I ran it through a filter, but do you reckon I should throw in some campden tablets then and see if it helps? How many do I need for a 23 litre brew and do I do it all before adding the water to the wort?

 

[jamesb]

Stick half a camden tablet in the water (make sure it dissolves) before adding the the wort.

The problem with chlorine reacting with the malt is that it can be anything from a tiny aftertaste to drinking a bottle of Domestos (don't try that at home).

 

[petkula73]

Yep - sounds most likely as I was assuming it was the sterliser that was doing it even though I had rinsed it thoroughly. If I'm still picking up that bleach like taste then it coming from poor quality water sounds like a good assumption.

I'll use a campden tablet next time - fingers crossed.

Apart from the biting aftertaste the beer has been great though - managed to get through 200 plus pints of the stuff anyway.

 

[jamesb]

It could still be the steriliser. Which one are you using?

 

[petkula73]

VWP

 

[jamesb]

VWP does have a habit of sticking to anything and needs several good rinses before you can get rid of all traces of it. It's also a chlorinated bleach so could possibly be the source of your strange tastes (still use the camden tablets though).

Sack it off and use thin bleach, it's easier to rinse and a lot cheaper.

 

[petkula73]

Okay cheers - I'll give it a go.

How much bleach do you use? A few drops?

 

[jamesb]

There are ways of calculating it. I just use a massive slosh... about half a pint I suppose.

 

[BrewStew]

you could also try Videne Antiseptic, which is available through any Boots store for £4.50 per bottle. You will have to get them to order it in though.

I don't believe Videne has any bleach content in it whatsoever

for a no rinse (yes, as in you wont need to rinse your FV's etc afterward) Videne solution you go for 1.5ml per litre... the bottles are 250ml so they last forever plus you get a nice clear (boom boom ;P ) indicator if you need to do it again... because if the solution comes out clear (it stays yellow if all is good) then you need to do it again.

i now use it all the time since Wez introduced me to it... it's good stuff

 

[Frisp]

I use soda crystals and warm and a 10 minute soak to get rid of the lumpy crud, rinse like a demon and then use videne. Job done, no nasty tastes just yummy malty

 

[Parva]

you could also try Videne Antiseptic, which is available through any Boots store for £4.50 per bottle. You will have to get them to order it in though.

I don't believe Videne has any bleach content in it whatsoever

for a no rinse (yes, as in you wont need to rinse your FV's etc afterward) Videne solution you go for 1.5ml per litre... the bottles are 250ml so they last forever plus you get a nice clear (boom boom ;P ) indicator if you need to do it again... because if the solution comes out clear (it stays yellow if all is good) then you need to do it again.

i now use it all the time since Wez introduced me to it... it's good stuff

1.25ml per litre is sufficient for a no-rinse sanitiser and the bottles are actually 500Ml and not 250Ml as you stated, I know because I too bought mine from Boots (£4.29 I believe). :)

 

[prolix]

PK73 go all grain mate, kits are well... I made one again after going AG as I did not my brewery available, two can jobby and it was dire, same beer I used to think was the ducks nuts too.

get a water report from your water board, email the technical plebs and tell them why, they love it (used to work for anglian water) the rest are just numpties that sit at desks, so be sure to let the lab boys know the rest of the company would fail without them.

as to you acid dilemma sounds like bacteria or wild yeast I have one in one of my fermenters which is really nice almost creamily fruity, disgusting in IPAs but great in porters and dark beers (OP pint I am drinking now has it full front of mouth stuff), I use soda crystals and videne here (I need water treatment as well as my water is in fact, psycho not just hard and makes beers more bitter to IMHO). but it never gets rid of it. I have to scrub everything well, every brew and use thin bleach as well in my bitter fermenter, it is almost my signature not tatsed it anywhere else.

Though I am on my 8th fermenter in 3 years as It seems to get in all my beers but I get beer stone like a basilisk farm, though the expensive ones seem immune compared to the youngs fermenters ( think I need to go shinny)

as to the campden tablet there are those who swear by it and those who don't and they both produce good beer. I don't swear by campden tablets, but put a half in every brew (bet and braces)


It could always be That homebrew taste, everyones taste buds are different some people are hypersensitive to certain tastes. Did it always have it?

this probably has not helped anyone as it does not flow well but the OP has flowed very well :

 

[Vossy1]

p73, start by using 1/2 a camden tablet to treat your water. This will rid chlorine and chloramines which can react with hop constituents to give a dry/tcp taste to your beer. This taste will get worse over time, so an older beer may taste literally of antiseptic :sick:

If you continue to use VWP, you can use the other half of the camden tablet in the water you use to rinse you equipment.
Campden tablets neutralise chlorine, so they can be used to make sure that none of your VWP sanitiser remains on your equipment after sanitising. The only down side to this, is that you will be using your sense of smell to make sure your camden tablet solution is still working, ie, no bleach/chlorine smell.
Sodium metabisulphate can be bought more cheaply than tablets in HBS as such :thumb:

Videne, as used by many of us, as a sanitising solution, including myself for the last 2 years , can also be use as a visual indicator to prove the absense of chlorine. The correct dosage for videne as a sanitising solution is 1.25ml/ltr as mentioned by Parva. Increasing this amount may actually lead to a reduction in it's effectiveness as a sanitiser. You can also use this strength solution to prove that you equipment is chlorine free after use with VWP. Simply add a drop of diluted videne solution to a drop of water which has collected on your rinsed equipment. The presense of chlorine will make the brown videne solution go clear.

Videne may also be use as a starch indictaor at the end of your mash. Basically, at the end of your mash most of the starch should have been converted to fermentable sugars. If any starches remain, they can cause problems with your finished beer. To test for starch at the end of your mash place one drop of you wort on a white plate, add a drop of neat videne. If the solution remains tan/brown there is no starch present, if the solution goes purple/black, the starch conversion is not complete, leave the mash to 'mash' for longer, and retest.If you have black/purple specks in you sample solution, but the entire solution remains tan/brown, assume conversion is complete. Debris from the mash may still contiain starch in small amounts, you can get most of the starch out, but some will always remain for home brewers.

 

[BrewStew]

1.25ml per litre is sufficient for a no-rinse sanitiser and the bottles are actually 500Ml and not 250Ml as you stated, I know because I too bought mine from Boots (£4.29 I believe). :)

yep, sorry... had a blonde moment there :lol:

 

[Aleman]

Treating the water for chlorine should be a first step . . . what sort of filter? if its a Brita one it does not do a proper job .. . you need an activated charcoal one to do it properly. 1/2 a campden tablet in up to 10US gallons is fine.

VWP is a chlorinated cleaner/sanitiser, and you need to ensure that you have removed all the chlorine . . . a campden tablet in 1/2 a pint of warm water makes a very effective rinse . . . especially if you add a pinch of citric acid . . . which is a good tip to rinse any bleach based cleaner an acidic solution does it most effectively . . . a tsp of vinegar (I use the White Stuff) in a pint of water and it rinses very effectively.

I don't know the kits you mention so I have no idea as to how bitter they are (hop wise), but I do recall an amusing incident at the CBA where one brewer was complaining about a nasty bitter after taste in his beer . . . We suggested everything we could think of to help him but nothing worked . . . when we finally got to sample the beer . . . it was excellent, and there was nothing wrong with it . . . . The guy just didn't like beer What sort of commercial beers do you like? this might help eliminate that issue.

LME kits do not age well IME, as as they get old they develop That Homebrew Taste (THT) which is a little difficult to describe but makes kits taste 'samey' . . . Fresh kits are very good.

It could also be that you have a house infection . . . I do, if I ferment in the house I get a lactobacilus infection . . . ferment in the shed and I don't.

All grain does not have to be a big investment . . . If you were local to me you could come and join in a brewday and take some of the wort away to see if that eliminated your problems . . . . There may be someone else local that will do the same Most brewers are fairly generous chaps.

 

[petkula73]

I do recall an amusing incident at the CBA where one brewer was complaining about a nasty bitter after taste in his beer . . . We suggested everything we could think of to help him but nothing worked . . . when we finally got to sample the beer . . . it was excellent, and there was nothing wrong with it . . . . The guy just didn't like beer What sort of commercial beers do you like? this might help eliminate that issue.

No danger of me not liking beer!

Commercial-wise I'd normally go for something nice in bottles like Batemans, Highgate, O'Hanlons, Sierra Nevada, Timothy Taylors or at a push Newcastle Brown. I tend to avoid anything in a can and don't see the point in stuff like Fosters, Stella, Carling etc. However, at the end of the month I'll gladly drink aftershave and window cleaner.

Thanks for everyone's tips here. I'm going to try both Campden tablets to treat the water going in to the beer and also Videne to use as a sanitiser. I get the feeling that our local water (in Formby) is pretty heavily tampered with as it tastes dreadful compared to the water in Halifax where I'm originally from.

 

[jamesb]

However, at the end of the month I'll gladly drink aftershave and window cleaner.

Withnail? Is that you?