Moving onto all grain - some help please

[Covrich]

BIAB CAN contain a sparge step, those saying it can't are just been purists who believe that it's only BIAB if you don't sparge... Personally, I see shooting yourself in the foot re efficiency just to be a purist as silly. There are plenty of guides to BIAB that include a sparge step. BIAB just means brew in a bag, and that's exactly what you are doing even if you sparge. There are quite a few variations of BIAB.

For every definition on the internet saying that BIAB is ONLY full volume mashing, there is at least one other saying that you can add a sparge step etc and it's still BIAB.

Apologies I feel you may have taken a bit of an offence there.

It wasn't meant as a purist comment, I typically interpret it that way because BIAB was designed for a single vessel system which involved a full mash system of course you can add in any extra stage you want. Nobody is saying you can't sparge, just typically you do not with its original concept which was a single step process in a single vessel. Adding a sprage by seperatly heating is fine but it typically would require a second vessel to heat in.. not a problem either way. I wouldn't get too hung up on it you could add 50 steps if you want to.

I used to sparge and I now for this I don't it isn't about being sensitive about being purist tradition it is about being a simpler process and consistent.

 

[Clint]

Fwiw my experience as a newcomer to ag,3 vessel system....a few words stand out there. ..simpler process and consistency. I found before worrying about efficiency I needed to find out what my equipment produces then understand the process then replicate..good or bad. I went from kits to part mash then to ag.
Some great advice offered.

 

[-Bezza-]

Finally set to give this a go at the weekend, with the following recipe:

HOME BREW RECIPE:
Title: Amarillo Single Hop Ale

Brew Method: BIAB
Style Name: American Pale Ale
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 15 liters (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 14.5 liters
Boil Gravity: 1.052
Efficiency: 65% (brew house)

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.050
Final Gravity: 1.010
ABV (standard): 5.24%
IBU (tinseth): 39.2
SRM (morey): 5.9

FERMENTABLES:
3.5 kg - United Kingdom - Maris Otter Pale (95.2%)
0.175 kg - German - Carapils (4.8%)

HOPS:
25 g - Amarillo, Type: Pellet, AA: 7.2, Use: Boil for 70 min, IBU: 30.88
10 g - Amarillo, Type: Pellet, AA: 7.2, Use: Boil for 15 min, IBU: 5.93
10 g - Amarillo, Type: Pellet, AA: 7.2, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 2.38
30 g - Amarillo, Type: Pellet, AA: 7.2, Use: Boil for 0 min
25 g - Amarillo, Type: Pellet, AA: 7.2, Use: Dry hop for 5 days

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) MASH: Temp: 65 C, Time: 60 min, Amount: 16.5 L (Strike Temp 70*C)
2) SPARGE: Temp: 65 C, Time: 0 min, Amount: 5 L
3) FERMENTER TOP-UP: Temp: 17 C, Time: 0 min, Amount: ~4 L (To 15l)

OTHER INGREDIENTS:
1 each - Protofloc, Time: 15 min, Type: Fining, Use: Boil

YEAST:
Danstar - Nottingham Ale Yeast
Starter: No (Rehydrate)
Form: Dry
Attenuation (avg): 77%
Flocculation: High
Optimum Temp: 13.89 - 21.11 C
Fermentation Temp: 17 C
Pitch Rate: 0.5 (M cells / ml / deg P)

Generated by Brewer's Friend - https://www.brewersfriend.com/

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So just two quick questions:

- How many packs of Notty would people suggest for fermentation? One or two?
- Is one protofloc tablet the right quantity?

 

[IainM]

One pack of Notty should do the job given the OG and volume, and half a protofloc should be more than enough.

EDIT: Also, have fun! There's no going back after this.

 

[-Bezza-]

One pack of Notty should do the job given the OG and volume, and half a protofloc should be more than enough.

EDIT: Also, have fun! There's no going back after this.

Thanks. The BIAB is a test - if I pass I get to buy cornies and an all in one...

 

[AdrianTrace]

Good Luck! That's going to be a very pale ale. But it's also going to be a winner - Amarillo/Notty will be fine... and Cornies are definitely worth it. For some reason I have 8 of them knocking around

I use 1/3 of a whirlfloc (pretty much the same) for my 15-20l, as they say 1 tablet will do 60l but I'm extract brewing with 3-400g of steeping grains - go with 1/2 to start with and see how it goes.

 

[-Bezza-]

Good Luck! That's going to be a very pale ale. But it's also going to be a winner - Amarillo/Notty will be fine... and Cornies are definitely worth it. For some reason I have 8 of them knocking around

I use 1/3 of a whirlfloc (pretty much the same) for my 15-20l, as they say 1 tablet will do 60l but I'm extract brewing with 3-400g of steeping grains - go with 1/2 to start with and see how it goes.

Cheers. As long as this tastes like beer I'll be happy. Would rather practice on something simple and not too expensive then do some proper stuff once I've figured out how it all works.

I can completely understand why you have 8 kegs. I suspect they don't lady too long either...

Is there any downside in using too much protofloc? Guess I'll get granules next time!

 

[AdrianTrace]

Other than cost, I don't think there's an issue. The simple recipes are often the best.

 

[ElvisIsBeer]

This sort of thread demonstrates what a smashing forum this is.

 

[AdeDunn]

Apologies I feel you may have taken a bit of an offence there.

It wasn't meant as a purist comment, I typically interpret it that way because BIAB was designed for a single vessel system which involved a full mash system of course you can add in any extra stage you want. Nobody is saying you can't sparge, just typically you do not with its original concept which was a single step process in a single vessel. Adding a sprage by seperatly heating is fine but it typically would require a second vessel to heat in.. not a problem either way. I wouldn't get too hung up on it you could add 50 steps if you want to.

I used to sparge and I now for this I don't it isn't about being sensitive about being purist tradition it is about being a simpler process and consistent.

No no, wasn't offended with you at all. However, if you have ever been on a certain BIAB focused forum you will understand my annoyance with the actual purists. I get the simplification thing believe me. I recently started doing a recirculating mash BIAB, with the only stirring been at doughing in time. My mash efficiency dropped from over 80% to 70%, but given the reduction in effort needed to me it's a good trade off. Given that by the end of the brew day my overall efficiency into fermenter is at 90% still, and I still end up overshooting target OG, it's not an issue.

I tried no sparge once though, and it dropped my efficiency into fermenter to 60% even with a mash out. So I went back to sparging, and refining my method to get a better SG of the sparge runnings, and clearer runnings too. If I had a much larger boiler though, I'd probably go back to no sparge with a bigger volume into boil, and just boil longer to get the OG I want through boil off.

Bezza, that recipe will be delicious I'm sure. I did a SMASH with Maris Otter and Mosaic, and it wasn't as pale as I expected. I boiled it's head off though (14.5 litres down to 4.5 litres, losing about 1 litre in the boiler to trub). It came out a lovely orange colour. Usually though, with a less insane boil, you get a nice golden colour. Amarillo is one of our favourite hops too, along with Citra, Mosaic and Belma. :thumb:

 

[Honk]

I started with similar equipment and what I would do is mash in the large pan, topping it up after the grains (in a bag) are added.

Dunk sparge or drain bagvin the smaller pot and boil both pots but add all hops to large pan, use the small pot to top up the large one as it evaporates.

 

[Lowcliff]

This is one of the best threads i,ve read for a long time.

 

[Litmus]

Not sure if anyone has suggested this but, why not take your 7L pot drill a bunch of fine holes in the bottom, make up a few spacers so when it's in the 20L it doesn't sit on the bottom, and you have a mini BIAB system minus the pump?

Would it make more much easier sparging with a kettle and clean up after? Call it the GrainSON lol!

 

[BeerCat]

I thought i would post this link for bags from http://brewinabag.co.uk/en/ I bought one a few months ago and its excellent value and quality. I am going to buy another one and use it for hops. They make a pointed one as well which is great for hanging to drain.
Also you can sparge with cold water if you need to and buy a refractometer so you know what your preboil gravity is. That way you can sparged more if needed. I hit my numbers every time now i use one.

 

[-Bezza-]

Well I'm currently underway (long boil stage so watching the gruffalo...)

Looks like I've got 64% efficiency once I've adjusted the hydrometer reading for temperature so can't complain too much.

Mashed in an fv in a bag. ph was 5.9 with no water treatment. Only issue was then getting the wet grain bag out of the neck of the fv. I have a sticky floor! Also struggled with pouring such large volumes of liquid between vessels so possibly introduced a bit too much oxygen. Doesn't matter too much though.

Got a nice rolling boil on the stove. Smelling great and I'm not in too much trouble with the wife. Happy days.

Waiting for the timer to ping then more hops...

 

[ElvisIsBeer]

Good luck!

 

[GerritT]

Oxygen is okay before fermentation.
Recipe looks like a Greg Hughes'.

 

[-Bezza-]

Oxygen is okay before fermentation.
Recipe looks like a Greg Hughes'.

Yep, a Greg Hughes recipe.

Was reading how to brew and he was saying that you can oxidize hot wort. Will dig out the reference tomorrow if I can. I'm not concerned too much as I wasn't splashing things around excessively.

 

[Litmus]

Yep, a Greg Hughes recipe.

Was reading how to brew and he was saying that you can oxidize hot wort. Will dig out the reference tomorrow if I can. I'm not concerned too much as I wasn't splashing things around excessively.

There is a bunch of brewers in the US that have debunked oxidization hot side at least on the small scale. You would need a pump running that is sucking air from a loose fitting and pumping it into the wort for the hole transfer to even get close to producing HSA issues. There was a good article on the Beersmith forums but, I can't find it now :S

 

[-Bezza-]

There is a bunch of brewers in the US that have debunked oxidization hot side at least on the small scale. You would need a pump running that is sucking air from a loose fitting and pumping it into the wort for the hole transfer to even get close to producing HSA issues. There was a good article on the Beersmith forums but, I can't find it now :S

Ah, good to know, thanks. Guess theory only gets you so far in brewing!