Moving from Kits to AG Equipment advice

[PokeHer]

Hey all,

Sorry this question probably comes up every week. I have tried searching the forum a lot but haven't really found what I'm looking for.

I have been brewing from kits for about 18 months and I have been planning to move to the "dark side" for a while now. So I have all of the equipment required for kit brewing, I just need the AG stuff. I am planning on buying everything. I have read several interesting posts on how some of you have made your own gear which I am kind of interested in, but I have the money available to invest in shiny things. In your honest opinion, do you think that I could build something better than I can buy? (without breaking the bank of course). I have moderate DIY skills. It's an honest question, I have no idea on the answer. I have a budget of between £300-£500 for my main 3 pieces of equipment (being the boiler, mash tun & wort chiller)

So firstly, given my situation, would you suggest buying my equipment or creating a DIY build?

And then, assuming you suggest that I buy, what do you think to these?

Mash Tun - http://www.the-home-brew-shop.co.uk/aca ... QG_7qHMdvk
Boilers - http://www.the-home-brew-shop.co.uk/aca ... QHAPaHMdvk
http://www.hopandgrape.co.uk/public/det ... TA20252653
Wort Chiller - http://www.the-home-brew-shop.co.uk/aca ... ml#a100110

I read on here that the Brupaks Boiler is not ideal for 23ltr brews. Quantity is not overly important, I brew 23ltrs now so I guess I'd like to stick to that.

Another quicky, should I get a separate HLT now? or wait to see how I get on first?

fwiw, I'd prefer to have my brew days in the kitchen but failing that, it'll be the garage and I'll be fermenting in my conservatory (I put my FV in another bigger FV filled with water which I heat). Not sure that matters but thought I'd mention it!

Many Thanks
Poke

 

[prolix]

honestly go 50l and make it yourself we will give loads of advice.

70l boiler
thermpot mash tun
plate chiller

 

[keith1664]

You can pretty much make a 3 vessel shiny set up for the price of this. A version of which you'd end up with anyway. And half the fun is in making the kit!

(ok I might be exaggerating slightly, but It won't be that much more)

 

[Vossy1]

If you're competent at DIY make your own, it'll cost a lot less than buying it :thumb:

 

[Fil]

you want a larger volume for a comfortable boil within the kettle than the brupacks thing offers, the mash tun isnt bad but is quite expensive, tho does use a quality box to start with, and the manifold is a tried and tested design. I bought an off the shelf mashtun when i started ag, its done me well. branded 'Viking' found on ebay uses a different smaller 30l coleman box, and was about £50-60, with a false bottom and braid filter options.

The beauty of DIY is you can have exactly what you want.

Although your happy with 23l brews now, consider the beers going to be that much better but will take a day to brew,, you will probably want more pints for your brewing hours pretty quickly..

you can do as much diy as you want the malt miller will sell you a SS pot with holes cut in it for elements taps etc, (at a cost...)
imho buying the qmax hole punch and cutting the holes yourself is cheaper and you get to keep the 'free' tool.
the copperkettle online shop sells 67l pp buckets suitable for boiler conversion and they did offer a free hole cutting service??

lots of online brewshops sell elements which are simple fit and screw up and test jobs but you can cannibalize a tesco budget kettle or 2 to shave an extra tenner or so per element off the budget..

Brass and copper plumbing pipe and fittings work very well for all the tap and pipe needs..

but building your perfect brewery can be an addictive pursuit :)

 

[PD]

Hi.
I've just gone down this route, due to age and skills I decided to buy my main pots already done. Yes its expensive to a point. I made the decision before Christmas did some frantic saving and collected Christmas presents of all the family as money...!
I bought my gear from the Malt Miller, nothing was too much trouble for Rob and he put up with my endless e mails and telephone calls without any complaints.
I've ended up with 2 x 100 litre stainless pots, and due to a good piece of fortune I purchased a 80 litre stainless steel thermo pot off a member here on the forum, at a vast saving.
My system is now up and able to be used ( I didn't start ordering till the new year ) if it had been self build I would probably still be struggling.

The bench was fabricated by a member of my family and is a sturdy well built contraption with moveable tower and height adjustment, he charged my £90 for top quality materials and stated any welder could knock one up for £120 ish easily..Its basically a fish tank frame ( large admittedly )
So the choice is yours build or buy...
I can understand the satisfaction and savings of self build, however for quickness quality assurred and a system that will last a lifetime I chose to buy. I've not been disappointed.
The only thing I was shocked about was the price of kettle elements......and kettle leads... they seemed to be well over priced.

I have no connection with the Malt Miller apart from a well satisfied customer and I heartily recommend them.

Good luck with your set up, whichever way you decided to go.....

( I recon that theoretically a 25 litre brew will cost me £12-£14 each time for around 50 bottles o beer, at say £1.50 shop price each (( £75 )) so a £50 saving each brew...the set up will be reimbursed within the year...)

 

[PokeHer]

Thanks everyone. I was probably 75-80% sure that I was going to buy. But now I am honestly thinking about building. I have taken a look at some of the latest Mash Tun and Boiler builds on here and they look just excellent. I'll probably go get another real ale kit tomorrow, start that off and then look into building some SS vessels.

Cheers

 

[calumscott]

If you want to get started quickly and at the lowest cost, then you should consider Brew In A Bag (BIAB).

I will eventually go three vessel and have a scavenged burco boiler for my HLT and I bought a 50l shiny thermo and a 70l shiny pot. The thermo has a hole in the bottom now but is still in its box.

The pot has a tap and hop stopper and I use it on my gas hob to brew BIAB All Grain beer. The best of it is that the work that I've done on the pot makes it a perfect boiler when I eventually get the shed brewery sorted out.

I've lost nothing by doing it in stages and gained the ability to brew AG at a low entry cost. :thumb:

 

[PokeHer]

So I have had a think and I am going to build :) I am going to start off with the boiler. Other than durability, are there any benefits to getting a good quality stock pot? (I'm guessing it should hold the heat slightly better?) Also, I was going to stick to 25ltr brews but due to the recommendations here, I think I'll go 50ltr. I'll just have to put up with the chore of supping more pints!

I'm thinking about getting this http://www.lceonline.co.uk/genware-stoc ... -45cm-dia/ and then I plan to follow 'Vossy1's' great guide viewtopic.php?f=30&t=1418

I think I will buy a plate chiller, not sure if you can build those? I would imagine you'd need more than my 'moderate' DIY skills!? This one looks ok? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Home-brew-50- ... 413&_uhb=1

And then I will probably buy a cheap plastic mashtun to get me started until I can build a solid one.

All look ok?
Many thanks everyone, appreciated

 

[Fil]

A great guide to follow....

a much cheaper pot can be got via an ebay.fr seller, although they dont advertise delivery to the uk, find one, email them, and ask for a uk delivery quote and you will proably get a short term discount offer (minus some ebay charges) to deal direct, search for the term "Marmite" ..
http://cgi.ebay.fr/100L-MARMITE-COCOTTE ... 2407wt_929


for example...

they do 70l ones as well.... and they include the lid, useful for hlt use....


i bought a thermopot for a mashtun from
[email protected]
(tho that might be an aftersales email addy sorry all i can find....) it arrived all shine n new in days.....

progress so far....

be warned even with the best intentions builds can drag,

qmax cutters for 20mm 0r 21mm holes for taps (depending if you want to file the last bit out) at about £15 on ebay.. you need to slowly drill a pilot hole then enlarge to fit the punch cutter.. and larger element sized ones are a bit more costly closer to £20.... but if you lie close to a fellow kit builder you may be able to borrow them for your cuts...

A sightglass is great, but i find a dipstick a lot easier to use and callibrate each brew as i fill with known amounts i mark off with an o-rings and cable ties around my ss tube dipstick. and you dont need to fit a sight glass which cuts down on work..

one feature of the metal pots for hlt/ boilers is a lot of heat is radiated by the pot, than plastic containers but a £shop groundmat makes a budget insulation wrap.

hope that helps

 

[rich27500]

You do it how you want but as a BIAB brewer, I would recommend you consider this because its cheaper, easier, makes just a good beer and you'll have less to build. Just saying!

 

[TRXnMe]

If you can drill a hole and wire a plug then build the kit yourself :)

Berglands (as mentioned above) are the ones to get your pots from, 50 litre pot for around £40 delivered :)

I built my 3 vessel system in 2 weeks, since then I've been tweaking it repeatedly and will be replacing two of the vessels, my plastic HLT and coolbox mash tun, as soon as my budget allows with stainless stuf from Berglands.

There are excellent how tos on here for both the boiler / HLT build and the theropot to mash tun conversion.

The only tools you'll need are; drill, file, dril bits, QMax cutters (don't use a holw saw on stainless, trust me on this, just don't)

Yoiu can get 1.5 KW elements off eBay for around £6, or buy ASDA value kettles and rip the elements out for slightly more power. If you go for the valu elements a pound shop silicone bake mat will provide all the packing washers you need to seal the element into the hole :)

 

[Dieseljockey]

If you're competent at DIY make your own, it'll cost a lot less than buying it :thumb:

100% with V1 on this, and to paraphrase TRXnMe

"There are excellent how tos on here for both the boiler / HLT build and the theropot to mash tun conversion."

and the forum is always here to help. Good luck with whatever you do decide.

 

[rich27500]

It's also more enjoyable to solve your problems, plan your brewery and build the bits you can. I bought an electrim mashing/boiling bin for about £80 I had to rewire it myself, I bought a bag for about £5. For far less I could have built a 60l boiler and made my own bag for a lot less. Live and learn isn't it! However my greatest innovation remains my lucky broken peg thermometer holder and my bag pulling screw.

 

[PokeHer]

Wow, so many helpful replies, awesome! You lot are going to save me quite a few quid!

For 50ltr brews, I'm guessing the 60ltr thermos pot will be big enough for my mash tun? Do you think I should get a separate HLT? If so, I may as well, order that too to potentially save on delivery costs. I'm going to ask Bergland for a price on the 60ltr thermos and 2 x 70ltr pots

You do it how you want but as a BIAB brewer, I would recommend you consider this because its cheaper, easier, makes just a good beer and you'll have less to build. Just saying!

This does look pretty good and it would remove the need for my 'temporary' mash tun! You have got me thinking but as the price is so cheap from Bergland, I can just order all my pots now! Thanks though.



Thanks again everyone, very kind.

 

[calumscott]

Two 70s for HLT and boiler will be spot on. That's where I went.

The thermo is still in its box for now and in the meantime I'm BIABing in the 70l pot...

...saves on the postage getting them together, doesn't mean you have to convert them all at once. :thumb:

 

[calumscott]

Oh and a 50l thermo will be fine.

And it just so happens that it has the same external dimensions as the 70s. Neat shiny!!!

 

[PokeHer]

Thanks CalumScott.

Just placed my order for 2 x 70ltr pots and a 50ltr thermos pot. They did do me a discount. €41.90 for the pots, €68.50 for the Thermos and €29.90 for the shipping. So overall should be under £160!

Seems very reasonable to me. Just hope I have the same pleasant experience as everyone else that has dealt with them.

Cheers

 

[calumscott]

Bargain!

I think mine came out about 110 for one 70l and one 50l thermo.

They are super efficient German types. Your pots will be there before you know it!

Now, just so you can get grain brewing quickly... Get on ebay and get hold of some muslin voile and seam tape and knock up a grain bag.

Then you'll need a hole in one pot, a bulkhead connector, a two (or three if you're feeling flush) piece ball valve and a bit of 15mm copper and a stopend to make into a hop stopper.

That gets you brewing BIAB style while you finish the build!!

I actually did my first without the tap! http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/viewt ... 21&t=31326

Here's my hop-stopper, others say use holes not slits but it works just fine for me: http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/viewt ... 81#p309781

The design for the bag is pretty simple, you need a circle 50cm in diameter, then a rectangle 160 x 55cm. Stitch them together with a 13 or 20mm tape in each seam - use three rows of stitching. Then stitch two tapes, crossing at the bottom and running up the sides of the bag forming big loops at the top as handles. That gives a bit of reinforcement when you have a wet grain bill in there. Finally the top edge of the bag should be rolled over and stitched to give a tube through which you thread a cord as a drawstring.

You could have everything ready before they arrive if you get your skates on!

 

[PokeHer]

Gonna take your advice and get BIAB'ing! Just received my despatch notice email :)

I think it will be better to start BIAB as then I have plenty of time to work on the MT and HLT conversions. Otherwise, I am likely to rush them and perhaps bodge something crucial!

I may even copy your idea of doing my first one without a tap (would you recommend it?). I actually have a 6 litre pot that I bought from Wilko's, I am a good mind to do a practice boiler conversion on that. Before I cut into my new shineys

Cheers