Mixing Yeast?

[ssashton]

Hi All,

I've recently brewed two batches of american style IPA. In the first batch I messed up kinda, becasue I forgot I hadn't any yeast in my brew box! So I went to my local Wilko shop and bought a pack of 'Gervin English Ale yeast' which I have read is also sold as Nottingham Ale Yeast.

This batch fermented super vigorously and went from 1050 down to 1006 and I think it would have gone further if I didn't stop it. However I feel the taste from the yeast is pretty strong and the smell is too.

The second batch I used 'NBS West Coast Style Ale Yeast' and it went from 1050 down to 1012, much slower than the first batch and didn't want to go further. It's a bit sweet for my liking but the taste and smell are cleaner and I prefer it for that.

So here is the thing - How reasonable is it to mix say a teaspoon of the Gervin yeast with the NSB yeast sachet to help it get a little bit more efficient but hopefully not add too much flavor? Or possibly, just add some Gervin at the end of the NSB fermentation?

I know you might simply recommend an alternative yeast. I have used Wyeast 1056 but it also tended to not go much lower than 1012. I like dry beer so 1010-1008 is good for me.

I would appreciate some input!

Simon

 

[ssashton]

P.S. Is there any catalogue of yeast specifications I can refer to? Typical attenuation, flocculation, lag time etc?

 

[cushyno]

I don't know of a catalogue as such, but yeast manufacturers usually have their attenuation figures on their websites.

A single reference for attenuation values would be great to have, though.

 

[Brew_DD2]

I'd be curious to see your recipe if you were finding the beer too sweet with a West Coast "Chico" strain. 1.012 is an absolutely fine finishing gravity, and higher doesn't necessarily mean sweeter. I've found that I prefer my IPAs with little or no crystal malts. I used to like the caramel balanced against the bitterness, but now I go to Munich or Vienna malts for that extra character without the sweetness.

 

[ssashton]

I'd be curious to see your recipe if you were finding the beer too sweet with a West Coast "Chico" strain. 1.012 is an absolutely fine finishing gravity, and higher doesn't necessarily mean sweeter. I've found that I prefer my IPAs with little or no crystal malts. I used to like the caramel balanced against the bitterness, but now I go to Munich or Vienna malts for that extra character without the sweetness.

It was the American Pale Mini Mash from The Malt Miller. Mostly malt extract (3KG) with 500g of real mash. I think that is one reason for the sweetness. Still, the recipe calls for FG 1010.

 

[Brew_DD2]

Even if it finished at 1.016 it wouldn't necessarily be discernibly sweeter. A lot of what is left behind is long-chained dextrins that leave body as opposed to sweetness. 0.002 is such a little difference that you would never be able to tell if you hadn't measured.

I'd be willing to bet there is crystal malt in that grist.

 

[ssashton]

Even if it finished at 1.016 it wouldn't necessarily be discernibly sweeter. A lot of what is left behind is long-chained dextrins that leave body as opposed to sweetness. 0.002 is such a little difference that you would never be able to tell if you hadn't measured.

I'd be willing to bet there is crystal malt in that grist.

Premium Grade Light Liquid Malt Extract 3kg
Crisp Pale Wheat Malt (200 grams)
Crisp Munich Malt (150 grams)
Crisp Crystal Malt (150 grams)
Citra Pellets (30 grams)
Simcoe Pellets (30 grams)
Mosaic Pellets (15 grams)
NBS West Coast Style Ale Yeast

I've found the same with all kit beers I've made though, which until this one were entirely liquid malt extract. So I guess it has something to do with using mostly malt extract, rather than 'real' mash wort. My all grain brews are not sweet at all.

Also I don't want to give the idea it is undrinkable. It's just slightly sweeter than I like.

Anyway, how about mixing yeast to get better attenuation without adding too much flavour products? I hate it when I can't hit my final gravity, feels like lost booze!

 

[Brew_DD2]

It could well be that it is the malt extract flavour as opposed to FG that you're noticing then.

 

[An Ankoù]

I don't know of a catalogue as such, but yeast manufacturers usually have their attenuation figures on their websites.

A single reference for attenuation values would be great to have, though.

I'm waiting for MyQul to publish the fruits of his decades of research.

 

[An Ankoù]

Hi All,

I've recently brewed two batches of american style IPA. In the first batch I messed up kinda, becasue I forgot I hadn't any yeast in my brew box! So I went to my local Wilko shop and bought a pack of 'Gervin English Ale yeast' which I have read is also sold as Nottingham Ale Yeast.

This batch fermented super vigorously and went from 1050 down to 1006 and I think it would have gone further if I didn't stop it. However I feel the taste from the yeast is pretty strong and the smell is too.

The second batch I used 'NBS West Coast Style Ale Yeast' and it went from 1050 down to 1012, much slower than the first batch and didn't want to go further. It's a bit sweet for my liking but the taste and smell are cleaner and I prefer it for that.

So here is the thing - How reasonable is it to mix say a teaspoon of the Gervin yeast with the NSB yeast sachet to help it get a little bit more efficient but hopefully not add too much flavor? Or possibly, just add some Gervin at the end of the NSB fermentation?

I know you might simply recommend an alternative yeast. I have used Wyeast 1056 but it also tended to not go much lower than 1012. I like dry beer so 1010-1008 is good for me.

I would appreciate some input!

Simon

There are other factors at stake, too, such as ambient temperature. Wilco's Gervin, Nottingham isn't my favourite, but I've always got some in the fridge as a standby. It should ferment pretty clean and shouldn't leave a residual taste. Sounds it fermented a bit on the warm side. Go for US-05 if you haven't got any temperature control, it's much more forgiving.

 

[ACBEV]

You can mix two yeasts... Then its a race to the finishing line, the more vigorous yeast will win if you pitch 50/50.

I've often used London Ale III with Belgian Ardennes, 50/50. In higher gravity ales. They seem to work together well, as they have similar attributes.

You'd need to use your judgement with the yeasts you use.

 

[ACBEV]

Sounds it fermented a bit on the warm side.

Mosts yeasts will give off flavours if brewed outside their comfort zones. I too think Nottingham gives a clean taste compared to some others, if kept at arounf 16-18c

 

[Sadfield]

Mixing yeasts is quite common, Adnams and JW Lees do it, as have some of the "Craft"ier breweries, to brew NEIPAs. Often, less flocculant yeasts are more flavoursome and attenuate more as they stay in suspension longer to do there job, so a more flocculant yeast is used alongside to help it drop out. I think what you propose should work quite well.

 

[Rodcx500z]

Gervin is an animal, I used a lot over the summer, it will go down to 1oo4 really dry ale which I don't mind, I have no temp control so it's a good yeast for me although I have recently used mj yeast which has given me more insight as to how yeast works in different brews, I have fermenting a Belgium pale ale with mj-m41, please excuse my ramblings I have been drinking Duvel triple and innes and gunn original while watching Liverpool

 

[ssashton]

I do have temp control, but in the Gervin case did it without, just in the cellar at 20C ambient as that was exactly recommend on the label. However with the yeast activity I think it was more like 21-22C in the wort most of the time.

Perhaps I should just try the Gervin at 16C instead. I've never fermented lower than 19C.

I'm aiming for clean session IPA.

 

[An Ankoù]

I do have temp control, but in the Gervin case did it without, just in the cellar at 20C ambient as that was exactly recommend on the label. However with the yeast activity I think it was more like 21-22C in the wort most of the time.

Perhaps I should just try the Gervin at 16C instead. I've never fermented lower than 19C.

I'm aiming for clean session IPA.

I'm knocking out APAs and Ind I've got an IPA planned using MJs M42 the so called New World Strong Ale yeast. There's nothing New World about it as it's derived from an old Whitbread strain and is a cracking yeast. Should give you a nice, clean finish, bit with some character, and a quick fermentation with good flocculation at the end. At this time of year, with Christmas on the horizon, I just chuck the rocky head from one12 litre batch to another every two days. Brewing small batches in the kitchen is so convenient, you hardly need refer to it as a "brewday" as you can fit the stages into whatever else is planned for the day.

 

[Brew_DD2]

M42 is a great yeast. So much more robust than S-04. Very versatile too. I think MJ missed a trick with their branding on that one.

 

[ACBEV]

Perhaps I should just try the Gervin at 16C instead

I think that is a good idea... From memory Gervin (Nottingham), prefers 14c to 20c, which is a bit lower than most ale yeasts. Keeping the ambient temp @ 15-16c should ensure the wort doesn't get too warm.

 

[ssashton]

Got some info from Muntons about the GV-12:

The GV12 has high attenuation and high flocculation properties. The alcohol tolerance is 14%. The benefit of this strain is that it can ferment as low as 10°C (which could be used for lager type beers) and the normal ale 18° - 22°C range.

I really feel something is weird about the beer I've got from the GV-12 yeast but I'm not sure what.

Would anybody with experience in the UK be willing to give it a taste for me? I can pop a bottle in the post for you, or you are welcome to visit me in Gillingham, Kent.

I'm really unsure if I have a minor infection, a taste product from disinfectant chemicals or just the yeast being unfamiliar.

 

[DavidDetroit]

This batch fermented super vigorously and went from 1050 down to 1006 and I think it would have gone further if I didn't stop it.

If you don't mind, I'm curious how you stopped the fermentation? Are you kegging?
I've had experience combining different yeasts and it was all good. You initial idea should work pretty well.