matt76's Brewdays

[foxy]

I would be looking at the 30 minute boil as the culprit, did you check your boil pH?

 

[matt76]

I don't believe so - I had this problem even when I used to do 60-70 minute boils.

(But I could check again, it's not really hard!)

I check mash pH but not boil - what's the significance of the latter?

Edit: Actually, while I'm asking, why do you suspect a 30 min boil @foxy ?

 

[foxy]

I don't believe so - I had this problem even when I used to do 60-70 minute boils.

(But I could check again, it's not really hard!)

I check mash pH but not boil - what's the significance of the latter?

Edit: Actually, while I'm asking, why do you suspect a 30 min boil @foxy ?

If your boil pH is out you will be able to tell as you start the boil the hot break should be floating around in large clumps, if the hot break is just tiny particles or dirty looking its a sign of your pH being too high. When you say you don't use fining's you do use kettle fining's, I presume you do looking at the clarity of the wort in the kettle. Do you cold crash, -1 or -2 C for a couple of days should clear the beer without fining's.

 

[matt76]

If your boil pH is out you will be able to tell as you start the boil the hot break should be floating around in large clumps, if the hot break is just tiny particles or dirty looking its a sign of your pH being too high. When you say you don't use fining's you do use kettle fining's, I presume you do looking at the clarity of the wort in the kettle. Do you cold crash, -1 or -2 C for a couple of days should clear the beer without fining's.

Thanks @foxy - from what you say I think my hot break is ok. I use half a protofloc tablet ( irish moss) 15 mins before end of boil. I sometimes cold crash (depends on the beer) but not lower that probably 2-4degC as I don't have proper temperature control. Thanks for the tips.

 

[MyQul]

Yeah but that's precisely the point.....

You fine your beers (and very handsome they look too I might add) and I don't*.....

I've tried everything else I can think of including radically altering my brewing process with limited success regarding chill haze - crystal clear at room temp and virtually no sediment in the bottles (which is a very worthwhile achievement IMHO) but hazy once it's chilled.

So omitting FB is just the next step in a process of elimination. We'll see in a few weeks.

(* Actually I did add some Harris Startbrite finings to my Golden Ale in the FV yesterday - haven't used it before, will also be interesting to see what that does)

You'll always get chill have if you leave your beer for 2-3 hours to let the trub settle out. You're getting a hot break when you do the boil but you're not getting a cold break from rapid chilling, therefore you'll get chill haze because you've still got lots of proteins in the beer*

*basically this is all my fault for telling you about my technique for getting minimal trub in the FV

 

[matt76]

You'll always get chill have if you leave your beer for 2-3 hours to let the trub settle out. You're getting a hot break when you do the boil but you're not getting a cold break from rapid chilling, therefore you'll get chill haze because you've still got lots of proteins in the beer*

*basically this is all my fault for telling you about my technique for getting minimal trub in the FV

Negative - I DO chill rapidly (this time of year 5 mins to 20degC). It's just that I then let the crud settle out before draining the wort to the FV. So my process is different to yours.

But FWIW, it's still all your fault because you told me about flaked barley!

 

[foxbat]

I use half a protofloc tablet ( irish moss) 15 mins before end of boil.

15 mins may be a bit long and might denature the carageenan. Hard data is difficult to find on this subject but what I can find indicates that between 10 and 5 mins is good (ref). I add at 7 mins which just happens to not clash with when I'm busy adding hops.

 

[MyQul]

Negative - I DO chill rapidly (this time of year 5 mins to 20degC). It's just that I then let the crud settle out before draining the wort to the FV. So my process is different to yours.

But FWIW, it's still all your fault because you told me about flaked barley!

Actually that's (ex) forumite Gunge's fault , as I got it from him. Nothing to do with me. Nosiree

 

[foxy]

I also add whirfloc at 10 mins to avoid the clash with 15 minute hop addition, even at 10 t0 15 C you will still have cold break just that you can't see it, and that small amount the yeast will utilise.
You can cold crash at a higher temperature than sub zero just takes longer to clear.

 

[matt76]

Thanks for the input folks, I do appreciate it. There's a few things to try there, starting with a simple tweak to the timing of the protofloc addition

 

[matt76]

Updates:

AG#34 Czech Pilsner
Finally! Finally it seems to be fermenting! Despite only being 3 months old since manufacture I had noted that the Wyeast smack pack hadn't really inflated prior to pitching. I have to say I've never had this issue before with Wyeast - normally it's away within 12 hours, and once when I accidentally picked up an out of date pack it took 48 hours to get going. This has taken 60 hours (2.5 days) since pitching to get going so fingers crossed all will turn out well.

AG#31 Golden Ale
Bottled this at the weekend...
Yield = 18 x 500ml bottles
ABV = 4.8%
SRM = 4
IBU = 22
Not getting much aroma but taste wise there's something tropical fruity going on, maybe mango, maybe a bit of pineapple? Still finishes quite sweet. Pale but cloudy. Not by best ever recipe but tasty and drinkable, certainly more so than before the dry hop. Fined with 5ml Harris Starbrite a few days before bottling - not sure how well this will work given the amount of hop matter in the FV but will be interesting as an experiment.

AG#32 "Cheatin' Like Helles"
Bottled a few days ago...
Yield = 20 x 500ml bottles
ABV = 4.6%
SRM = 4
IBU = 24
Colour = Pale gold
Aroma = Faint orange-citrus aroma.
Taste = Hint of something citrus, can't decide if it's more orange, or lemon. Dry aftertaste of Jacobs Cracker. Crisp, refreshing and moreish. Not as malty as AG#28 Munich Helles but nevertheless very pleasant in its own way.

 

[foxbat]

AG#34 Czech Pilsner
Finally! Finally it seems to be fermenting!

Well, something is fermenting it.




Only joking, a couple of days lag at 10C is normal according to White Labs. I normally have to wait a day or two for any significant activity at those temperatures even with big starters of fresh yeast.

 

[matt76]

Well, something is fermenting it.




Only joking, a couple of days lag at 10C is normal according to White Labs. I normally have to wait a day or two for any significant activity at those temperatures even with big starters of fresh yeast.

Heehee I think that FV had 1728 in in previously for my pseudo Helles, so not the worst thing even if it is residual yeast!

But really interesting point actually - the ground water is cool enough that I got it down to 15degC, then it was sat outside on a cold day for a while. And then I put it in the fridge to chill more to make sure it got down to 10degC. So maybe I have just inadvertently made it start really slow.

I always thought your supposed to chill and then pitch to avoid esters during initial fermentation - shows what I know!

Meh... Not much I can do about it now except keep fingers crossed!

 

[Zephyr259]

Ibalways thought your supposed to chill and then pitch to avoid esters during initial fermentation - shows what I know!

You're correct, pitching warm then cooler is likely to reduce lag time but risks esters or stalling the yeast if you chill too aggressively. You're beers all sound really tasty.

 

[matt76]

Update: Bottled AG#33 "Flat Spin" IPA

Yield = 21 x 500ml bottles

Colour = Pale but hazy

Aroma = Orange citrus

Taste = Really hard to place. There's a fruitiness in there, a bit of orange and maybe tropical fruit, but it's not especially pronounced. The flavour is almost muddy - not unpleasant as such but it's like the lighter aromatic qualities of the hops have been swamped, perhaps by the Columbus and Simcoe bittering hops. Gone is the searing bitterness of the first brew, but so too are the refreshing fruit qualities.

Different yeast of course, WY1272 last time, WY1187 this time. We'll see how it is in a few weeks once it's ready to drink, but at this point it's quite startling how different it seems compared with the first attemp (still have a few bottles of that left).

ABV = 5.5% (Supposed to be session strength but WY1187 has attenuated way more than expected!)
SRM = 5
IBU = 34

 

[matt76]

AG#35 Chinook APA
Rebrew of AG#19, slightly different grist and should end up with slightly lower ABV. This is basically my Munich Helles grist (plus using up a little Golden Promise) which I'm liking in general at the moment, and actually isn't so different from what I did originally.

250g Golden Promise
2000g Lager malt
200g Vienna
50g Victory malt

15L tap water
0.5 Campden tablet, 2g gypsum, 15ml CRS

Full-volume no-sparge mash. Would have done 30mins but ended up mashing for 75mins due to dad duties!

30 min boil:
10g Chinook (13.6% AAU) 30mins
10g Chinook (13.6% AAU) 10mins
13g Chinook (13.6% AAU) 5mins
15g Chinook (13.6% AAU) 0mins (chilled to 70degC and steeped for 10 mins before filing to 20degC)

Left to settle for 2 hours
Drew off 9.25L clear wort to FV, plus collected approx 3L trub in bottle to settle out.

Pitched Mangrove Jack M44.

OG 1.046, 38 IBUs, should end up about 4.9% which will do me nicely

 

[pilgrimhudd]

AG#35 Chinook APA
Rebrew of AG#19, slightly different grist and should end up with slightly lower ABV. This is basically my Munich Helles grist (plus using up a little Golden Promise) which I'm liking in general at the moment, and actually isn't so different from what I did originally.

250g Golden Promise
2000g Lager malt
200g Vienna
50g Victory malt

15L tap water
0.5 Campden tablet, 2g gypsum, 15ml CRS

Full-volume no-sparge mash. Would have done 30mins but ended up mashing for 75mins due to dad duties!

30 min boil:
10g Chinook 30mins
10g Chinook 10mins
13g Chinook 5mins
15g Chinook 0mins (chilled to 70degC and steeped for 10 mins before filing to 20degC)

Left to settle for 2 hours
Drew off 9.25L clear wort to FV, plus collected approx 3L trub in bottle to settle out.

Pitched Mangrove Jack M44.

OG 1.046, 38 IBUs, should end up about 4.9% which will do me nicely

Sounds nice that matt, may copy this recipe, I've got some lager and vienna malt kicking about. Might add some late citra or dry hop it as well.

 

[matt76]

Sounds nice that matt, may copy this recipe, I've got some lager and vienna malt kicking about. Might add some late citra or dry hop it as well.

Here's the original recipe I used for AG#19:
https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/matt76s-brewdays.81971/page-2#post-827657

In that case I used 20% Vienna malt, but I think the grist I used yesterday also has something about it - I'm not sure how much of that comes from the Vienna and how much from the Victory though.

When I make an IPA I tend to just go with base malt and hops - but I'm quite tempted to use this grist next time I do an IPA to see if it gives it something extra.

 

[pilgrimhudd]

Think I prefer your second recipe over the first. Which do you think you'll be more happy with?

Me too with the IPA, my recent 'welsh doom' IPA had chocolate and crystal in it which to be honest, im not sure about. It's quite brown too which doesn't seem right.

 

[matt76]

Think I prefer your second recipe over the first. Which do you think you'll be more happy with?

Me too with the IPA, my recent 'welsh doom' IPA had chocolate and crystal in it which to be honest, im not sure about. It's quite brown too which doesn't seem right.

I think both are good - in a hoppy beer I think the malt is more in the background. So you don't really notice it but if you did a back to back maybe you'd be able to tell the difference???

As for your Welsh Doom (where are you getting your recipes from by the way?) it sounds a Red IPA to me - my impression of the style is it's like an English bitter but with more assertive aroma & flavour from American hops (but not as full on as an AIPA)