Mash Acidification

[pommybitter]

I'm interested to understand how everyone adds acid to the mash!

How do people acidify their mash?

Do you add acid directly to the mash? If so how do you ensure such a small amount of acid (1-5mL) is really spread even across the entire mash volume? (yes you can stir but......????)

Do you acidify the strike water? If so how do only add acid to the small proportion water used for the mash V's the total water (strike and sparge) based on all the water for brewing coming from one HLT with all the water needed (at temp).

 

[DocAnna]

Acidification if required is primarily for the mash water so it’s not necessary to acidify the sparge water. The acidity is to bring the pH into the target range for the amylases - enzymes- in the grain to better convert the starches into sugars. By the time of sparging /lautering the enzymes have done their job so there’s no point acidifying the sparge water. If you are aiming for a specific pH for fermentation then it’s better to correct that after the boil.

This means it’s best to add any acids ie lactic, citric or phosphoric to the strike water. I hope that helps.

 

[Agentgonzo]

By the time of sparging /lautering the enzymes have done their job so there’s no point acidifying the sparge water. If you are aiming for a specific pH for fermentation then it’s better to correct that after the boil.

I thought that if the pH raised to high during the sparge, you got astringency extracted, so acidifying the sparge water was recommended if you have hard water.

I have a grainfather and a separate sparge tank, so it's easy to acidify the strike and sparge water separately.

 

[hoppyscotty]

I tend to acidify the strike water. Out of the tap I’m I. The high 7’s/touch on 8. So I’ll add my salts then take a measurement and add acid to initially bring ph down to low 6’s or high 5’s. Then adjust about 10 mins into the mash….if I remember, to allow for any acidification due to the grain. Usually an additional acid addition is not needed.

I’m in the process of reading up about managing ph post boil and thorough fermentation too. Depending on beer style there might be some possibility to manage post boil too.

 

[An Ankoù]

Do we really acidify the sparge water? I thought otherwise. the point of adding acid to the water is to reduce the concentration of carbonates and bicarbonates dissolved in the water to around 30-40 ppm for anything but dark beers. The water itself should give a similar pH reading before and after treatment. It's the malt that reduces the pH of the mash to it's optimum acidity of around 4.3, but carbonates and bicarbonates tend to buffer the process and prevent the mash becoming acidic enough. I always thought that the sparge water should be treated too so that the pH isn't raised unduly during sparging..
This will tell you all you need to know, it certainly helped me: and @strange-steve is still sorely missed.
https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/...d-water-treatment-in-post-1.64822/post-605368

 

[Benfleet Brewery]

Do we really acidify the sparge water? I thought otherwise. the point of adding acid to the water is to reduce the concentration of carbonates and bicarbonates dissolved in the water to around 30-40 ppm for anything but dark beers. The water itself should give a similar pH reading before and after treatment. It's the malt that reduces the pH of the mash to it's optimum acidity of around 4.3, but carbonates and bicarbonates tend to buffer the process and prevent the mash becoming acidic enough. I always thought that the sparge water should be treated too so that the pH isn't raised unduly during sparging..
This will tell you all you need to know, it certainly helped me: and @strange-steve is still sorely missed.
https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/...d-water-treatment-in-post-1.64822/post-605368

+1
This is still my water bible

 

[foxy]

As said above sparge water is or should be ideally 5.5 pH. Why, to prevent any astringency being washed into the wort. Can you treat all the water at the same time? I would say not the mash water has the buffering of the grains so will need less acidification as sparge water. Another reason is if sparge water has no treatment it will lift the wort to a higher pH level. How to, and how much salts or acid to add is relevant to two things process and water report to gauge how much and what to add.

 

[scomet]

No chill, no sparge, no worries mate..

 

[Sadfield]

Sparge acidification appears, in my experience, a homebrew thing and largely unnecessary. It's worth remembering that...

a) pH is logarithmic, so a problematic rise from 5.3-4 is going to require a lot of barely alkaline sparge water.

b) Tannin extraction is also time and temperature dependent. If you don't raise the grain bed temperature above the maximum mash temperature, you'll likely not extract tannins. Remember that some people successfully mash over night.

c) The most alkaline liquor gets removed with the spent grain.

 

[crescent city Mike]

As the sugars are being rinsed from the mash, so are the buffers which keep the pH down in the 5.1 to 5.5 range. As the sparge water, almost always with a higher pH, rinses these buffers out, the pH of the grain bed starts to rise. Once the grain bed rises to about pH 5.9, the tannins start to leach out of the hulls. The pH of the mash will continue to rise and eventually would match the pH of your sparge water, if you were to lauter that long. Raising the temp of the grain bed by using sparge water over 172 degrees just exacerbates the problem.

So, YES, you should acidify your sparge water to circumvent those nasty polyphenols. I use Palmer's RA worksheet.

 

[Sadfield]

As the sugars are being rinsed from the mash, so are the buffers which keep the pH down in the 5.1 to 5.5 range. As the sparge water, almost always with a higher pH, rinses these buffers out, the pH of the grain bed starts to rise. Once the grain bed rises to about pH 5.9, the tannins start to leach out of the hulls. The pH of the mash will continue to rise and eventually would match the pH of your sparge water, if you were to lauter that long. Raising the temp of the grain bed by using sparge water over 172 degrees just exacerbates the problem.

So, YES, you should acidify your sparge water to circumvent those nasty polyphenols. I use Palmer's RA worksheet.

It depends on what you class as acidifying. The above suggests you are viewing acidifying as using acid to remove alkalinity from the sparge water. As one would with mashing, with the pH of the treated liquor being irrelevant. Which in my experience is what happens in a brewery, mash and sparge liquor comes from the same hlt.

What appears to be suggested earlier in the thread is lowering the acidity to a given value of 5.5. Which is totally different.

 

[DuncR]

So in conclusion, water should/shouldn’t be treated for acidity for the mash/sparge/both or neither. Think I may need to do some further reading.

 

[Sadfield]

So in conclusion, water should/shouldn’t be treated for acidity for the mash/sparge/both or neither. Think I may need to do some further reading.

Always the best way. That's beauty of a variety of answers, they direct someone to do the own research to apply to their own situation, rather than blindly following others.

 

[Agentgonzo]

So in conclusion, water should/shouldn’t be treated for acidity for the mash/sparge/both or neither. Think I may need to do some further reading.

It's always useful to understand the chemistry/biology involved and why we are doing things. Different people have different water profiles depending on where they live so you can't just take one person's method and follow that. I didn't do any water chemistry for ~15 years and I'm still evaluating whether acidifying the mash water makes any noticeable difference to my brews.

 

[hoppyscotty]

Enzymes in the mash like a certain ph and yeast in fermentation like a certain ph. Ideally ph should be managed throughout the process. I know pro breweries that acidify sparge water so assume it’s commonplace in the industries, and breweries that make post boil and through fermentation ph adjustments for a whole host of reasons, some of which are biological in terms of enzymatic and fermentation activity, and some to do with mouthfeel and enhancing hop flavours.

There have been a few things I’ve done that have noticeably improved the beers I’ve made and one was when I started managing strike water ph. Now I’m pretty sure I’m not doing it optimally or perfectly, in fact I know I’m doing it pretty crudely, but what I am doing is having a noticeable impact of the final result and I’m looking to hone my skills in this area.

 

[Sadfield]

I know pro breweries that acidify sparge water

Are they adding acid to remove alkalinity? or are they adding acid to reach a specific pH, if so what is it? Potentially the same process, but conciderably different objectives.

 

[hoppyscotty]

Both in that their water is too alkaline so they’re adding acid to bring it into the 5.3 to 5.6 ph range or whatever their target is.….the water in the HLT is not modified as it’s used for many different purposes so they treat mash strike water and during sparge introduce acid to manage. If you watch Adam Makes Beer on YouTube he calculates the amount of acid needed for the sparge water volume and sprays from a spray bottle directly as the sparge is happening spreading it out over the time of the sparge so as not to acidify too much early on. That is a very manual method and I’m sure other breweries have different methods.

 

[hoppyscotty]

My method is to fill vessel with strike and sparge volume, add salts and acidify to around 6ph (tap water comes out at high 7’s) to allow for some acidification from the malt. Then separate the sparge volume and mash in. About 15 mins into the mash measure the ph and adjust….though in truth sometimes I forget this step. Normally I find very little acidification from the malt.

 

[Sadfield]

Both in that their water is too alkaline so they’re adding acid to bring it into the 5.3 to 5.6 ph range or whatever their target is.….the water in the HLT is not modified as it’s used for many different purposes so they treat mash strike water and during sparge introduce acid to manage. If you watch Adam Makes Beer on YouTube he calculates the amount of acid needed for the sparge water volume and sprays from a spray bottle directly as the sparge is happening spreading it out over the time of the sparge so as not to acidify too much early on. That is a very manual method and I’m sure other breweries have different methods.

That's interesting, but arguable that they're sporadically adding acid to grain bed rather than treating the sparge water. There's going different methods across breweries. Of the three breweries that I've brewed or 'helped' brew in, it was the opposite. The HLT was exactly that, a tank of hot liquor, not water. Where liquor in its true definition, is water considered suitable for brewing. Although depending on the source alkalinity reduction or mineralisation may not be required.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/beerandbrewing.com/dictionary/amp/RTRsi1ViHM

 

[hoppyscotty]

Think some breweries use the HLT for all sorts of purposes like cleaning too. With the volumes of hot water they need for many purposes it’s easier to have it stored in bulk in a big tank that is topped up as you draw it off.