Lager water help please.

[Dave1970]

I'm still looking to make a lager in a broadly Czech Pilsner style, although it's more important to me that it's good beer than exactly true to style

I was advised last time I looked at this that my water was no good so I have obtained some info. from Severn Trent...

Calcium (hardness)- Mean 203 mg/l
Magnesium (hardness)- Mean 58.7 mg/l
Sodium-Mean 24.4 mg/l
Sulphate- Mean 100.929 mg/l
Chloride- Mean 40.7 mg/l

When I put these into the forum calculator it came up with a figure of 270 mg/l for carbonate and suggested adding 93 mls of CRS to 40 litres of water

Reading elsewhere (Jims) I found this "CRS is a very strong acid and 1ml will (effectively) remove 180mg of calcium carbonate"

I understand that for Lager I'm looking to get my carbonate down to 30 so...

In total I need to get rid of 240*40 mg of carbonate = 9600 mg
CRS needed to do this = 9600/180 = 53 mls

Confused!! :wha:

 

[Mark1964]

that sounds about right our addition of crs to make 23 litres of lager is around 48ml heres how we worked it out for our water

The maths meq/L x50 = mg/L caco3 and 1ml of CRS removes 183mg/L caco3

(In English) Using your figures
5.49 meq/L x 50 =274.5 ppm reduce to 25 ppm (25 ppm is the figure for the type of beer Pale/Stout/Bitter) 25 ppm is a Bitter! so 274.5 -25ppm = 249.5...So you have to divide 249.5 by 183 = 1.36 CRS per litre of water (183 mg/L ) is the amount of CRS to remove calcium) . So then multiply 1.36 by the amount of water you are using for mash and sparge together eg 40 Litres..So 1.36 x 40L = 54.5 CRS

 

[Vossy1]

I've just input your figures Dave and can't get anything on the forum calculator, is there something missing in your post? The Calcium figure you've shown, is it Calcium or hardess, on my water report hardness is in degrees clarke :hmm:

 

[Aleman]

Forget using your water for a Boh Pils save yourself a lot of anguish and use ASDA SmartPrice or Tescos Ashbeck water to do it instead . . . or nip down to your local marine fish place and buy 25L of RO water, and add 10L of your water to it.

 

[Dave1970]

I've just input your figures Dave and can't get anything on the forum calculator, is there something missing in your post? The Calcium figure you've shown, is it Calcium or hardess, on my water report hardness is in degrees clarke :hmm:

Not sure Vossy :wha:

That is copied direct from the e-mail they sent me, my guess is its Calcium because I can find a figure of 19.00 degrees Clark on their website

 

[Aleman]

You sulphate is too high for a Boh Pils . . . at the hopping rate you have to use it will be quite harsh. . . . You could try doing a German Pils from around Munich.

Say Gravity around 1.054 and 30IBU bitterness with Noble hops . . . although if you reduce your alkalinity using CRS then you are adding even more sulphate making the situation even worse.

Whatever you do add . . . Calcium Sulphate and Magnesium sulphate (Gypsum and epsom salts) should be avoided like the plague (as should DLS which is a mix of the two)

 

[Dave1970]

This lager is proving elusive :hmm:
We have a decent marine aquarium shop not far away, I'll give them a ring and see what they charge for RO water

 

[EskiBrew]

I've just input your figures Dave and can't get anything on the forum calculator, is there something missing in your post? The Calcium figure you've shown, is it Calcium or hardess, on my water report hardness is in degrees clarke :hmm:

There is not enough info given to get the water calculator to work. It is also necessary to specify Carbonate (CO3) or Alkalinity as HCO3 or alternatively Alkalinity as CaCO3. Without that info, all bets are off. :nah:

 

[mabrungard]

Aleman is correct again. This tap water is far too mineralized to make a decent Boh Pils. The malt and hops are the stars in this beer and the water should be a transparent canvas that those flavors are painted on. This is one of those cases where you can't "add" your way out of creating a decent brewing liquor. Adding CRS to adequately neutralize the excessive alkalinity (it looks like its somewhere around 260 ppm as CaCO3) will add far too much sulfate to the liquor. One of the guys on the American forums likes to emphasis that excessive sulfate does not mingle well with German and Czech noble hops. He advocates keeping sulfate as low as possible in styles such as German and Boh lagers.

Indeed as Aleman points out, dilution or complete replacement is the only way that a brewer is going to have good success in this case when brewing a Pils. I'd say that he is a little low on the degree of dilution. It appears to me that the maximum amount of the local tap water would be on the order of 25% or less with the remainder being distilled or RO.

Another note on CRS usage. For some styles, brewers would be better off using lactic acid or phosphoric acid to neutralize excess alkalinity. CRS can boost both Cl and SO4 too high quite quickly. I find that keeping chloride below 100 ppm is a good target in any beer and keeping sulfate low in malty beers is desirable. Its not until you venture into hoppy beers or beers you want to finish dryly that you want to have sulfate exceeding 100 ppm.

I find you can't add minerals to an excessively mineralized tap water to create good brewing water.

Enjoy!

 

[Dave1970]

The beer is now made....2 weeks into lagering at the moment, I used about 25% my tap water/75% RO water so should be ok, certainly the sample I tried tasted right.

 

[tazuk]

mmm looks intresting :thumb: is just for lager recipys ????