Novice water advice!

[Davegase]

That's it. I think I've got some campden tablets somewhere from when I first started years ago. Do they go off ?

I've read various estimates of shelf life from 12 to 36 months.
I'm sure they'll be fine long after that if sealed.
They are cheap so if in doubt get some more.

 

[Sadfield]

I know. I feel I've got a phobia against using tap water so I'm going to try it at some point. Spotless will remain my go to.

Sorry, that wasn't really aimed at anyone specifically. Just a general reminder that water is an ingredient that can be manipulated to adjust the end result to taste, like we do with hops, grain or fermentation. Thinking in flavour, rather than just ppms. Its not just a mashing requirement. RO is fine, with additions one can still add some individuality rather than using the same profiles from Bru'n'water or wherever.

 

[peebee]

Definitely worth a watch for anyone who wants to learn a bit more about water and treatment.
Take note of the bit at the end about how water can change overnight

Thanks! Okay little video ... I'm already onto those "Palintest Kits" for checking alkalinity (bit expensive though?): They might be a solution to very low alkalinity supplies like mine flapping about and meddling with my attempts to get the mash pH right (and for situations, like the Murphy's guy mentioned, of identifying water supplies being switched without warning). Should cheer up @MashBag with all that mention of AMS (I never knew it stood for "Acidic Murphy's Solution!) and DWB (their "Dry, Water Burtonisation" salts ... a bit "one dimensional" is my view though).

But minus ten for repeatedly and unnecessarily mentioning "hardness" (and "softness"), though it was often corrected to "high" (or "low") "alkalinity". And minus twenty for suggesting adding "chalk" (calcium carbonate). It was mentioned it was difficult to dissolve - Pah, virtually impossible more like! You can get it to dissolve: Dissolving CO2 as well for instance (under pressure to make it easier) ... but it's to create calcium bicarbonate in solution (doesn't exist as a solid) ... bother that, use sodium bicarbonate if you must!

 

[Twostage]

Sorry, that wasn't really aimed at anyone specifically. Just a general reminder that water is an ingredient that can be manipulated to adjust the end result to taste, like we do with hops, grain or fermentation. Thinking in flavour, rather than just ppms. Its not just a mashing requirement. RO is fine, with additions one can still add some individuality rather than using the same profiles from Bru'n'water or wherever.

No apology needed for me.

Your second sentence makes me think about the malt, hops, grain, yeast series of books. I'm sure they all make a case for their subject being the most important thing . The problem is they are all right .

 

[peebee]

Thanks! Okay little video ... I'm already onto those "Palintest Kits" for checking alkalinity (bit expensive though?): ...

I'm looking into this "Palintest" stuff. Seems I'll need a photometer to use them (like their "Lumiso Expert")? Sounds expensive! And will they have a useful "resolution"? I'll await a reply from them.

Otherwise, is back to noseying at basic titration equipment for us geeks.

 

[peebee]

... Otherwise, is back to noseying at basic titration equipment for us geeks.

Why would I want to know?

The problem with having very low alkalinity water seems to be that water board will "dose" the water supplied with pH raising chemicals (to protect pipes from acidic erosion). And either the dosing is far from accurate, or the dosing is variably consumed 'tween source and tap, or the dosing is (without warning) changed, etc., etc. I can tell it's happening because the pH bounces about between 7.0 and 8.5 (the only time the pH of the tap water yields useful information!)? The changes make it impossible to predict mash pH when making light-coloured beers (pale ales, etc) ... not that it seems to make much difference? I've already said I might mash at pH5.0 with no noticeable effect.

(I used to have fairly predictable mash outcomes, but since they installed "new" dosing equipment mash pH outcomes are all over the place, usually on the low side).

 

[JockyBrewer]

Why would I want to know?

The problem with having very low alkalinity water seems to be that water board will "dose" the water supplied with pH raising chemicals (to protect pipes from acidic erosion). And either the dosing is far from accurate, or the dosing is variably consumed 'tween source and tap, or the dosing is (without warning) changed, etc., etc. I can tell it's happening because the pH bounces about between 7.0 and 8.5 (the only time the pH of the tap water yields useful information!)? The changes make it impossible to predict mash pH when making light-coloured beers (pale ales, etc) ... not that it seems to make much difference? I've already said I might mash at pH5.0 with no noticeable effect.

(I used to have fairly predictable mash outcomes, but since they installed "new" dosing equipment mash pH outcomes are all over the place, usually on the low side).

I'm curious about this - what do you think your water supplier is adding, and why doesn't a basic alkalinity check allow you to figure out what you need to neutralise whatever they've added?

 

[peebee]

I'm curious about this - what do you think your water supplier is adding, and why doesn't a basic alkalinity check allow you to figure out what you need to neutralise whatever they've added?

Some info: DWI - The physical and chemical properties of water

So, Lime it seems? They (Welsh Water employees at our service reservoir) told me that new dosing equipment was being tuned in a couple of years ago. How true I can't comment, but things haven't improved much since.

"Basic Alkalinity Check"? I'm trying to find one. The Salifert KH/Alk test is too much work to do at a moment's notice and isn't any use now since they changed it a couple of years ago (needs something like 300-400ppm "as CaCO3" in alkalinity before it reads reliably now).

You, shacked up in "Epsom, Surrey", (and the vast majority of UK population) don't have to be troubled by those sort of things.

 

[MashBag]

That's it. I think I've got some campden tablets somewhere from when I first started years ago. Do they go off ?

Yes

 

[MashBag]

I know. I feel I've got a phobia against using tap water so I'm going to try it at some point. Spotless will remain my go to.

Why

 

[MashBag]

"Basic Alkalinity Check"? I'm trying to find one.

Here you go sweetie

https://www.camlab.co.uk/hanna-hi77...ter-colorimetric-method-25-tests?gad_source=1

 

[Twostage]

Why

Why the phobia, why try tap, or why spotless ?

 

[Davegase]

I know. I feel I've got a phobia against using tap water so I'm going to try it at some point. Spotless will remain my go to.

I'm not against using tap water, as long as you understand it won't always be the same. That's why people invest in RO systems.
I didn't go down that route because it's too expensive and too much hassle for me, and I have Spotless water on my doorstep which is consistent I've had it tested and it's cheap.

 

[peebee]

I'm not against using tap water, as long as you understand it won't always be the same. That's why people invest in RO systems.
I didn't go down that route because it's too expensive and too much hassle for me, and I have Spotless water on my doorstep which is consistent I've had it tested and it's cheap.

But you're doing it right ... using "Spotless" rather than "investing" in a RO system.

The domestic RO systems are horribly inefficient. Using them isn't so-much a concern of wasting time using RO water for beer brewing (which is arguable), it should be everyone's concern of wasting limited resources! People using domestic RO systems should consider that next time they have a hosepipe ban (or worse).

 

[Davegase]

But you're doing it right ... using "Spotless" rather than "investing" in a RO system.

The domestic RO systems are horribly inefficient. Using them isn't so-much a concern of wasting time using RO water for beer brewing (which is arguable), it should be everyone's concern of wasting limited resources! People using domestic RO systems should consider that next time they have a hosepipe ban (or worse).

I'm sure more water is wasted by water companies not repairing leaks than home brewers using RO water.

 

[MashBag]

Why the phobia, why try tap, or why spotless ?

I suppose the question is why not tap water. (if you can drink it)

 

[Deadhead]

This is a good listen about the purity of tap water in the UK -
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001wypf

I feel always so lucky to have beautiful Highland water!

 

[peebee]

I'm sure more water is wasted by water companies not repairing leaks than home brewers using RO water.

Pah!

Don't get me started on them! By "them" I mean the water company "directors" (often in foreign countries), not the guys and gals left behind to slave under them.

 

[JockyBrewer]

Some info: DWI - The physical and chemical properties of water

So, Lime it seems? They (Welsh Water employees at our service reservoir) told me that new dosing equipment was being tuned in a couple of years ago. How true I can't comment, but things haven't improved much since.

"Basic Alkalinity Check"? I'm trying to find one. The Salifert KH/Alk test is too much work to do at a moment's notice and isn't any use now since they changed it a couple of years ago (needs something like 300-400ppm "as CaCO3" in alkalinity before it reads reliably now).

Hmm. Salifert always was the go to. Took less than a minute to do and got me within 25ppm which was good enough for brewing. I did have a dodgy kit off ebay though which was massively out.

I then switched over to a Hanna alkalinity colorimeter, which is fast and seemingly accurate when compared with a lab report I had done, even though I accidentally bought the 'Marine' version. The marine reagent is half the price of the freshwater reagent and for my purposes seems to be close enough.

You, shacked up in "Epsom, Surrey", (and the vast majority of UK population) don't have to be troubled by those sort of things.

True, but understanding these things can be helpful.

 

[Twostage]

I suppose the question is why not tap water. (if you can drink it)

That's a good question. The Missus won't drink it and only likes buxton fizzy (although she did like spotless when I was trying to make some buxton by adding salts to spotless and I gave her a before and after). It does smell chloriney, especially in summer when they up the dose to counteract the possibility of nasties when the water is warmer.

I'm struggling to remember what gave me the initial push to bottled .

I now really enjoy the spotless blank slate.

I'm going to have to get some campden tablets and give it a go, though. Is there a thing where I can put in the numbers from the Northumbrian water report and it will tell me what profile it is ?