Novice water advice!

[peebee]

Hmm. Salifert always was the go to. Took less than a minute to do and got me within 25ppm which was good enough for brewing. ...

It certainly was. But they recently switched to a "two bottle" format (was three) having mixed the pH conditioner (hydroxide solution) and reagent in one bottle (the other bottle is the indicator dye). Fine if your alkalinity is high, hopeless if low ... like 25ppm ... as the sample and reagent used will be at too low a pH. The kits are really for aquariums and won't need to measure low alkalinity, so it's hard luck us.

25ppm? (as CaCO3 I'll presume). That's lower than I'd expect, but Surrey spans a big area, including some with low Alkalinity.

I then switched over to a Hanna alkalinity colorimeter, which is fast and seemingly accurate when compared with a lab report I had done ...

I'm looking at them this very day! I hope they are good 'cos they are quite a price (£78 - £82 with reagent for 25 tests). My "Alkalinity" is declared as 21ppm "as CaCO3", tested privately (at house) as 8.0, and the pH swings all over the shop (7.0 - 8.5) ... and so do my mash pHs! I'm trying to figure out a cheap solution for others in the same situation ... meanwhile, I'll try one of those expensive "colorimeters"!

 

[MashBag]

I then switched over to a Hanna alkalinity colorimeter, which is fast and seemingly accurate when compared with a lab report I had done, even though I accidentally bought the 'Marine' version. The marine reagent is half the price of the freshwater reagent and for my purposes seems to be close enough.

Ooo. That's good to know, I am using pool testing strips at the moment. I too nearly bought marine, didn't buy, but then didn't revisit getting one.

 

[MashBag]

I'm going to have to get some campden tablets and give it a go, though. Is there a thing where I can put in the numbers from the Northumbrian water report and it will tell me what profile it is ?

Yes. This thread. I for one would like to see it. Whats the postcode of a shop or something near you. That way your address is not disclosed but we the water (or is that waster) collective can query the supplier and get the full report.

 

[JockyBrewer]

It certainly was. But they recently switched to a "two bottle" format (was three) having mixed the pH conditioner (hydroxide solution) and reagent in one bottle (the other bottle is the indicator dye). Fine if your alkalinity is high, hopeless if low ... like 25ppm ... as the sample and reagent used will be at too low a pH. The kits are really for aquariums and won't need to measure low alkalinity, so it's hard luck us.

25ppm? (as CaCO3 I'll presume). That's lower than I'd expect, but Surrey spans a big area, including some with low Alkalinity.


I'm looking at them this very day! I hope they are good 'cos they are quite a price (£72 - £82 with reagent for 25 tests). My "Alkalinity" is declared as 21ppm "as CaCO3", tested privately (at house) as 8.0, and the pH swings all over the shop (7.0 - 8.5) ... and so do my mash pHs! I'm trying to figure out a cheap solution for others in the same situation ... meanwhile, I'll try one of those expensive "colorimeters"!

One thing to note with the Hanna alkalinity colorimeters - the reagent has a shelf life, and when you exceed it by too much the tests readings do go haywire. The last reagent pot I got from an online aquarium shop had about 12 months life on it.

The marine (salt water) reagent is about £15 for 25 tests, the fresh water one is more like £30! I believe that the main difference is that the marine checker covers 0-300ppm CaCO3 alkalinity and the freshwater goes up to 500ppm.

My readings seem to be ok with the marine one, and I have alkalinity of about 255ppm CaCO3, or sub 10ppm when I use a very cheap RO filter.

 

[MashBag]

Thanks

I am in the 240s and then 80 after AMS

 

[Twostage]

Yes. This thread. I for one would like to see it. Whats the postcode of a shop or something near you. That way your address is not disclosed but we the water (or is that waster) collective can query the supplier and get the full report.

I posted the brewers section of the water report on page 2 of the thread but here it is...

 

[peebee]

I have alkalinity of about 255ppm CaCO3

Ah, 25PPM was a typo!

Now let me see what else I can comment on ... oooh, @Twostage has posted something ... , he's posted that flippin' "Hardness" claptrap again ... s'cuse me, I need to go round and box his ears! ...

 

[peebee]

Let me demonstrate why I'm so vehemently opposed to arcane "Hardness". It's actually quite a reasonable system, but it requires some understanding and skill to use; without it, it's misleading and confusing. From post above:

They've attempted to be helpful here including the "real" figure for Calcium (in mg/L, effectively "ppm"). Helpful for me too ... I'll use it in this illustration.

CaCO3 (Calcium Carbonate) has some handy "attributes" for working things out in your head or a scrap of paper: So good, I'm writing all this off the top of my head! It is also handily "related" to "Hardness" in that we all know chalky ground creates "Hard" water. Despite "chalk" (CaCO3) being virtually insoluble in water.

CaCO3 has a molecular weight of near enough 100. The Carbonate component has a molecular weight of near enough 60. The Calcium component has a molecular weight of near enough, you've guessed it, 40! Easy! Difficult to forget.

So, the Calcium Carbonate figure divided by 2.5 gives the Calcium figure. 198.96 / 2.5 = 55.584. And Calcium is responsible for "Hardness" so the "Total Hardness" is equal ... 55.58, just like the table says!

Except the "real" figure for Calcium is 48.2mg/L. 55.58 - 48.20 = 7.38. Well, we know "Hardness" is due to Calcium and Magnesium (and other element, but they're tiny, small amounts). So, the 7.38mg/L is Magnesium! Except we've been given the Magnesium figure ... it's 4.49mg/L. That's because the Magnesium figure is masquerading as Calcium and has "changed its weight" to match.

You can play similar games with the Carbonate component of a "as CaCO3" figure (a different figure to just described!) to describe "temporary hardness" ("Carbonate Hardness") but we're not given any figure for that here.

Confused? You should be! DON'T USE HARDNESS! You don't need it!



[EDIT: Oops, I've used the "MAX" figures off the table, not the "MEAN" as normal. Daft flippin' table, what did they lay it out like that for? No consequences, this is but an illustration!]

 

[peebee]

I'm looking into this "Palintest" stuff. ...

I stopped looking at "Palintest", it was only a little more expensive than its competition, maybe cheaper for more reagent (tablet form). But the information was a bit "new" and not developed. It made my uneasy about what I'd get. So, I opted for the competition ("Hanna Pocket Checker - Alkalinity" ... the freshwater option, avoid the "marine" option?).

Yeap, I've splashed out, (unnecessarily?). It's very expensive maintaining a "clever ****" persona.



The "Palintest" tool can also be obtained from their resellers "Test All Water" and "Camlab". I'm sure the information will get better.
[EDIT: "A little more expensive"? I'm right to be uneasy? Like-for-like it is a lot more expensive! I don't think the Palintest one is "photometer" analysed (greater incremental measurements) in its cheaper range (uses manual colour comparison?). The cheapest "Hanna" one I found was: Hanna Pocket Checker - KH/Alkalinty -- Hatton Koi]

 

[Twostage]

I posted the brewers section of the water report on page 2 of the thread but here it is...

View attachment 96932

Had a quick look at the Brewersfriend profiles and roughly speaking I think the answer is "hoppy" due to the high ratio of sulphate:chloride. Strangely the Scottish ale has a high sulphate to chloride ratio and that's malty.

 

[peebee]

The popular way of checking "alkalinity" (for pH prediction) is using the "Salifert KH/Alk" test kit: It was always very difficult to use with "soft" (very low Alkalinity) water, but since they changed the kit a couple of years ago it became completely unreliable!

Where did I get that from! 'Twas the Calcium kit with the change, not the Alkalinity kit!

Thanks! Okay little video ... I'm already onto those "Palintest Kits" for checking alkalinity (bit expensive though?)

Gave up with the Palintest Lits: Very expensive! The Hanna Checker is a better bet but still a lot of money: £80! Plus £30pa for reagents, and only designed for only one purpose ... Alkalinity checking.

 

[peebee]

Double post! (Deleted)