Just stop oil

[lancon]

If JSO's mandate is truly about fighting for change and not just to incite civil disobedience then do it properly. Get yourself elected, get into parliament, and argue the cause in the house like a modern democracy. Hell, it worked for Farage.

I don't remember seeing farage asking PMQs?
I do remember him lying though, and still on the subject johnson, who was elected, said he would lie down to stop the bulldozers creating terminal 3. Inciting civil disobedience from parliament?

 

[JockyBrewer]

If JSO's mandate is truly about fighting for change and not just to incite civil disobedience then do it properly. Get yourself elected, get into parliament, and argue the cause in the house like a modern democracy. Hell, it worked for Farage.

Minor point - Farage never got elected into the UK parliament, so never argued on UK matters of law.

 

[JockyBrewer]

JSO are seeking to hold the UK government to their OWN climate targets in their own manifesto.

They are seeking an end to NEW oil projects in the UK as part of a transition away. No one is seeking to shut down the industry tomorrow.

Protest tactics aside, these are entirely reasonable requests, particularly as we see the world burn.

It's really not too hard for the UK to go 100% renewable with nuclear as a baseload, which would be an incredibly green and vastly safer than we currently have - thousands of people die each year in the UK due to fossil fuel emissions.

 

[hoppyscotty]

Just Stop Oil are using classic Civil disobedience tactics, identical to the tactics used by the civil rights movement in Northern Ireland and the American South.

Doesn't provide any justification for the tactics whatsoever.

 

[hoppyscotty]

I have to take you up on that, there is no such principle. While I agree that everyone should be treated equally under the law, everyone's opinions are not usually addressed by the law unless your stated opinion offends under the law: you're not allowed to publically express racist opinions. The law certainly doesn't defend either your Luvvie opinions nor your Gammon opinions and it says nothing about them being equal.
Saying that everyone's entitled to their opinion is a million miles away from saying all opinions are equal.

Semantics. Depends what side of the fence you sit on and if you agree with the Gammons or the Luvvies s to how 'equal' you consider someone else's opinion to be. If you think someone else's opinion is inferior to yours on a particular subject then that exhibits a certain amount of narcissism on your behalf. Nobody has the correct 'opinion'....that 's what makes it an opinion. Every day is a school day and wisdom is a journey and not a destination. Make your case, argue your point and if you are successful in convincing others on the strength of your arguments and evidence then great...if not then maybe its time to reconsider your own opinions. Ultimately the fact your political opinion my differ from others doesn't mean you cannot, in the eyes of the law, be penalised for them.

As for things like racist opinions. It is perfectly legal for anyone to express racists/sexist etc opinions...so long as you're not inciting violence. It's a fundamental principle of freedom of speech...to challenge the views and opinions of others that you might find abhorrent and based on prejudice. Arguing with a racist is the easiest argument to win...I have no idea why we insist on hiding them away and shutting them up and driving them underground allowing their poisonous ideas to proliferate. These things always come back to bite you in the end. Tackle them head on like whack-a-mole.

 

[hoppyscotty]

I don't remember seeing farage asking PMQs?
I do remember him lying though, and still on the subject johnson, who was elected, said he would lie down to stop the bulldozers creating terminal 3. Inciting civil disobedience from parliament?

There are many ways to engage in the political process and ultimately many questions on the eu referendum were asked in PMQ's, just not by Farage. The whole EU thing has been a festering wound in our politics for decades. Any individual can ask their local MP to ask a question at PMQ's. That's what they're there for. We seem to forget, politicians work for us, not the other way around, unfortunately Farage was effective in exposing the anti EU sentiment within the political elite and the fact it wasn't being tackled by open debate and being suppressed which just fuelled the fire and distrust and ultimately led to the refurendum. Like I said before if you don't tackle things head on they just fester and come back three-fold to bite you in the backside.

And if you're citing Boris Johnson to support your argument...well that just proves you're onto a sticky wicket Never ceases to amaze me how that charlatan got anywhere near parliament. He stands for nothing, and whatever he stands for today, he'll be opposing tomorrow.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Never ceases to amaze me how that charlatan got anywhere near parliament. He stands for nothing, and whatever he stands for today, he'll be opposing tomorrow.

52.6% of voters voted for him in 2019 you say he stood for nothing if that was the case how poor was Ali.

 

[hoppyscotty]

Yep...that is the root cause of our current political state. Not the poor state of the Tories...but the even poorer state of the opposition parties. They're missing open goals right now. They're all as bad as each other. For me the Monster Raving Loony Party is looking at getting my vote next time around!! Even they cannot make more of a hash of things right now.

 

[Brewnaldo]

Semantics. Depends what side of the fence you sit on and if you agree with the Gammons or the Luvvies s to how 'equal' you consider someone else's opinion to be. If you think someone else's opinion is inferior to yours on a particular subject then that exhibits a certain amount of narcissism on your behalf. Nobody has the correct 'opinion'....that 's what makes it an opinion. Every day is a school day and wisdom is a journey and not a destination. Make your case, argue your point and if you are successful in convincing others on the strength of your arguments and evidence then great...if not then maybe its time to reconsider your own opinions. Ultimately the fact your political opinion my differ from others doesn't mean you cannot, in the eyes of the law, be penalised for them.

As for things like racist opinions. It is perfectly legal for anyone to express racists/sexist etc opinions...so long as you're not inciting violence. It's a fundamental principle of freedom of speech...to challenge the views and opinions of others that you might find abhorrent and based on prejudice. Arguing with a racist is the easiest argument to win...I have no idea why we insist on hiding them away and shutting them up and driving them underground allowing their poisonous ideas to proliferate. These things always come back to bite you in the end. Tackle them head on like whack-a-mole.

Not all opinions are equal. Not all opinions are subjective. Many people express absolute ******** opinions these days under the guise of "im entitled to my opinion" and completely fail to undersrand that quite often, opinions can be shown to be wrong.

the problem we face nowadays seems to be that people confuse the right to have an opinion with having the right for your opinion Not to be challenged, called out or ridiculed.

 

[JockyBrewer]

Yep...that is the root cause of our current political state. Not the poor state of the Tories...but the even poorer state of the opposition parties. They're missing open goals right now. They're all as bad as each other. For me the Monster Raving Loony Party is looking at getting my vote next time around!! Even they cannot make more of a hash of things right now.

The root problem is the electoral system. The 'First Past the Post' system means that the best most can hope for is a 2 horse race in any constituency, and most don't even get that. What that means is that rather than each voter having the option to vote for a party that closest represents their views, the choice just boils down to 'More of the Same' or 'Someone different'.

 

[Bosch]

The root problem is the electoral system. The 'First Past the Post' system means that the best most can hope for is a 2 horse race in any constituency, and most don't even get that. What that means is that rather than each voter having the option to vote for a party that closest represents their views, the choice just boils down to 'More of the Same' or 'Someone different'.

That and the fact a lot of UK media is owned by Murdoch.

An uncomfortable fact is, a lot of European electorate pay lip service to environmentalism but are unwilling to cut back or sacrifice their own living standards

 

[MrJay83]

Seen this on Twitter and had to laugh...
"My son is taking part in a social experiment and has to wear an orange Just Stop Oil t-shirt to gauge reaction.

So far, he's been spat on, punched, and had a bottle thrown at him.
I'm curious to see what happens when he goes out of the house."

 

[lancon]

There are many ways to engage in the political process and ultimately many questions on the eu referendum were asked in PMQ's, just not by Farage. The whole EU thing has been a festering wound in our politics for decades. Any individual can ask their local MP to ask a question at PMQ's. That's what they're there for. We seem to forget, politicians work for us, not the other way around, unfortunately Farage was effective in exposing the anti EU sentiment within the political elite and the fact it wasn't being tackled by open debate and being suppressed which just fuelled the fire and distrust and ultimately led to the refurendum. Like I said before if you don't tackle things head on they just fester and come back three-fold to bite you in the backside.

And if you're citing Boris Johnson to support your argument...well that just proves you're onto a sticky wicket Never ceases to amaze me how that charlatan got anywhere near parliament. He stands for nothing, and whatever he stands for today, he'll be opposing tomorrow.

The point I was making was in reply to a point about being elected to parliament as that was democracy citing farage as example. Farage wasn't elected to uk parliament.
And no I wasn't citing johnson as the comment I was replying to was about being elected and forget civil disobedience, and johnson was in favour of civil disobedience though he was an elected MP.
And as to your point of EU being a festering wound in our politics for decades, I think you'll find it is not in our politics but it was the Tory party that was being torn apart.

 

[DaleMC]

cut back or sacrifice their own living standards

Depressingly so. If ULEZ was so pivotal in that by-election it really underscores that. I live in Zone 3, i stopped driving when i moved to London. On the occasions it is required, I use ZipCar.

Outer London public transport isn't as great as inner London. However it is still really great compared to the majority of rest of the country (and miles better than Brum or Manchester surburbia). I don't really get why so many people drive down here. Sitting in traffic looks miserable.

The UK is obsessed with cars (the Billions ploughed into subsidising drivers through new roads shows this) - but in reality we should be looking to create post car futures. Go to a city in the Netherlands, walk around and its much much more pleasant than a city where you're battling with cars. More investment is needes in public transport and making that more attractive for people.

 

[dad_of_jon]

Depressingly so. If ULEZ was so pivotal in that by-election it really underscores that. I live in Zone 3, i stopped driving when i moved to London. On the occasions it is required, I use ZipCar.

Outer London public transport isn't as great as inner London. However it is still really great compared to the majority of rest of the country (and miles better than Brum or Manchester surburbia). I don't really get why so many people drive down here. Sitting in traffic looks miserable.

The UK is obsessed with cars (the Billions ploughed into subsidising drivers through new roads shows this) - but in reality we should be looking to create post car futures. Go to a city in the Netherlands, walk around and its much much more pleasant than a city where you're battling with cars. More investment is needes in public transport and making that more attractive for people.

just as horse and carriage have had their time as the main mode of transport maybe the car is going to go the same way. but only if there are reasonable alternatives.

 

[JockyBrewer]

just as horse and carriage have had their time as the main mode of transport maybe the car is going to go the same way. but only if there are reasonable alternatives.

My bet is that the next big transition will be where most of the cars on the road will be self driving taxis, and most people won't own cars, they'll just hail them when required.

 

[MrJay83]

just as horse and carriage have had their time as the main mode of transport maybe the car is going to go the same way. but only if there are reasonable alternatives

People outside of the likes of London will always need personal transport. I personally hope that hydrogen engines become practical and win out over EVs. the government will have to make life really hard for me before I give up my car.

 

[aolcot]

My bet is that the next big transition will be where most of the cars on the road will be self driving taxis, and most people won't own cars, they'll just hail them when required.

yup this is exactly what I think will happen and thought this for a long while.. car ownership will drop hugely as "robotaxi's" flood the country when we have the infrastructure to support level 5 self-driving cars. not sure it'll be in my lifetime though, and as often seen, it may will be the young that are more open to change like not owning a car as they never experienced it so it'll be a gradual shift to self-driving taxis using whatever engine tech wins through.

 

[MrJay83]

I like the thought of just being able to hail a pod and away you go but I can't see AI coping well with the likes of Northern Ireland back roads. Will they just be roaming the countryside? There's also the other reason I don't particularly use public transport. I don't fancy hailing a pod only for the door to open and there is crap or blood up the walls.

 

[The Baron]

Some of you lot have been watching "Total Recall" too much.
Look what happened to Johnnie Cabs