IBU's

[Sadfield]

All feels like an extra and unnecessary logical step employing a more complicated calculator, to get a bit closer, when you already know the degree to which tinseth is out for higher ibu beers. To reach the same conclusion of simply increasing the bittering addition.

 

[foxy]

All feels like an extra and unnecessary logical step employing a more complicated calculator, to get a bit closer, when you already know the degree to which tinseth is out for higher ibu beers.

But I didn't know how far it was out, and neither do many other brewers, we now have a better idea how these scales work. For me I am now enlightened that I have an answer to something which has been bothering me. The accuracy of projected IBU's.

 

[peebee]

... Well if you had have taken the time to read it you would have noticed that he does mention the storage and hop freshness.

Well, if @foxy had have taken the time to read it he would have noticed he could have tripped me up very embarrassingly. But he didn't, a missed opportunity for him!

Anyway, I've answered the criticism in an earlier post that @foxy obviously hasn't taken the time to read.

@foxy is very defensive, a prime subject for winding up!

~~~~~

The project is very interesting. But is still very much in development and way too complex to be fit for the homebrewing community. Unfortunately, the author is not going to be the person to make it fit for the homebrewing community! The scourge of all eggheads, they are hopeless at user interfaces and cannot bring themselves to "compromise" where it makes little difference. (ADMISSION: I'm naff at creating user interfaces too; I've spent a lifetime creating bad ones).

The complexity makes it easy for users to skip bits they can't grasp that can have enormous effects (I know this 'cos that's what I was doing, and what @foxy was doing but you won't get him to admit it!) - to the SMPH author's credit, you do get "defaults" for skipped bits, but that's hardly the same.

I'll stick with "Tinseth", modified with hop age, for now. But SMPH possibly does hold out promise for the future? Thanks to @foxy for highlighting it (even if he did do it badly).

 

[foxy]

Well, if @foxy had have taken the time to read it he would have noticed he could have tripped me up very embarrassingly. But he didn't, a missed opportunity for him!

Anyway, I've answered the criticism in an earlier post that @foxy obviously hasn't taken the time to read.

@foxy is very defensive, a prime subject for winding up!

~~~~~

The project is very interesting. But is still very much in development and way too complex to be fit for the homebrewing community. Unfortunately, the author is not going to be the person to make it fit for the homebrewing community! The scourge of all eggheads, they are hopeless at user interfaces and cannot bring themselves to "compromise" where it makes little difference. (ADMISSION: I'm naff at creating user interfaces too; I've spent a lifetime creating bad ones).

The complexity makes it easy for users to skip bits they can't grasp that can have enormous effects (I know this 'cos that's what I was doing, and what @foxy was doing but you won't get him to admit it!) - to the SMPH author's credit, you do get "defaults" for skipped bits, but that's hardly the same.

I'll stick with "Tinseth", modified with hop age, for now. But SMPH possibly does hold out promise for the future? Thanks to @foxy for highlighting it (even if he did do it badly).

You will never change, all wind and bluster with no substance.

 

[Sadfield]

But I didn't know how far it was out, and neither do many other brewers, we now have a better idea how these scales work. For me I am now enlightened that I have an answer to something which has been bothering me. The accuracy of projected IBU's.

Although you've already said that neither predictions or measurement will ever be accurate. So your still reliant on your own sensory judgement and skill to reach a desired outcome.

Though as home brewers we cannot expect to ever get an accurate IBU reading we can confidently go forward using our taste buds to lead us instead of taking note of, 'Not to style'

It is never going to be accurate, but by the looks of it a dam sight more accurate than some of the others.

 

[peebee]

You will never change, all wind and bluster with no substance.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Don’t let this thread get too bitter.
l’ve got a flavour of what the new method is but I won’t hop on the bandwagon.

 

[Stu's Brews]

Don’t let this thread get too bitter.

I hope this pun was fully intended!

 

[Agentgonzo]

I hope this pun was fully intended!

Only that one?

l’ve got a flavour of what the new method is but I won’t hop on the bandwagon.

 

[peebee]

Oops. "No Substance". I better tackle that:

I obviously tackled this issue from the angle I know makes a difference ... hop age. Damn me if the SMPH method doesn't include it! With "defaults" if you don't read the instructions to wield it properly. "I would like to stress the importance of knowing the packaging and storage conditions of your hops!" the author says, but he's a bit remiss offering only a "flat rate"; I at least work to two (storage before getting the hops and storage after which I can be more sure of). He goes on to say "The best way to really know the freshness factor is to have a sample of the hops analyzed for the HSI and then use the Nickerson formula: freshnessFactor = 1.0 − (1.10 × log10(HSI × 4.0)). The freshness factor value and the default estimate of the HSI on this page are approximations only, and the real values will probably be at least somewhat different". ... Flippin' heck! ... Good job he's got those defaults in place! I wonder if anyone else has noticed he "ages the hops"; @foxy obviously didn't or I'd have had me nose rubbed in 'it.

And what the hell is "decay rate constant"? I'd better look it up:

Kinetic Modeling of Hop Acids during Wort Boiling

Right... substance? I feel a bit constipated now.


But "hop age"? Even the author of SMPH advises the importance of that. I better keep up my farty insistence of roughly working it out. I wonder if I've convinced anyone else to do it? Or will they battle on with SMPH (as it stands) and ignore "hop age" to just get the (rougher than rough) default "hop age" anyway?

 

[peebee]

Only that one?

l’ve got a flavour of what the new method is but I won’t hop on the bandwagon.

I hope someone has stopped shining that (virtual) laser light on Cat's wall.

 

[Agentgonzo]

<Lots of complicated stuff>

, I'm glad that I only use IBU numbers as a rough indicator and don't rely on them. This sounds like a lot of work.
Though one thing it does bring into question is the storage of hops between picking and me. Obviously, it comes from the producer to the local stores and is (as far as I have heard) vac-packed very early on in the supply stage. As home brewers, we are told to always keep them frozen/fridged. Does anyone know if the homebrew stores keep them frozen/chilled? I would expect that large freezers/fridges for a large stock of hops would be rather expensive, so I wouldn't be surprised to hear they are all just shoved it large cabinets in a backroom without chilling.

 

[Stu's Brews]

, I'm glad that I only use IBU numbers as a rough indicator and don't rely on them. This sounds like a lot of work.
Though one thing it does bring into question is the storage of hops between picking and me. Obviously, it comes from the producer to the local stores and is (as far as I have heard) vac-packed very early on in the supply stage. As home brewers, we are told to always keep them frozen/fridged. Does anyone know if the homebrew stores keep them frozen/chilled? I would expect that large freezers/fridges for a large stock of hops would be rather expensive, so I wouldn't be surprised to hear they are all just shoved it large cabinets in a backroom without chilling.

On both the Malt Miller and CrossMyLoof websites they state they store their hops frozen/chilled. Don't know about others as I tend to always get my stuff from those two.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

I hope someone has stopped shining that (virtual) laser light on Cat's wall.

No comprende

 

[peebee]

... Damn me if the SMPH method doesn't include it! With "defaults" ...

Rats! I might have damned myself! The main program doesn't tie into the many "side programs" and has its own default (0.97 "freshness factor", which seems to mean ... "skip"?). As I said, it is "work-in-progress". And it doesn't operate as a whole; just yet? Or it may just disappear in a "poof" of complexity.

... Though one thing it does bring into question is the storage of hops between picking and me. ...

Hum, yes, I have had the same trouble. We can both do the "me" end, and I'm able to say I've done the "picking" end (3-4 years as a youth making pocket money). But the bit between ... I only learnt in the last year or so that hops are quite normally put in cold store (2-10°C?). It'd frightening to think of cold warehouses stacked with those wackin' big hop "pockets" somewhere. I generally err on the cautious side, being more cautious if I have reason not to trust the supply chain. Highly technical! I'll even arbitrarily slash the "HSI" (which this SMPH site has made me realise is probably a "loss of AAUs in six months" figure instead) by 50% for "BBC" pellets because I know then undergo special treatment (if you brewed with American hops in the 1980s, you'd know how tied and useless they once were!).

No comprende

Cats don't! (I was referring to your rapid-fire puns!).

 

[Cheshire Cat]

This thread makes me wonder if IBU stands for
I’m Bored Utterly
With all respect to the contribution from our members obviously.

 

[Clint]

Is anyone going to ruthlessly pursue this IBU conundrum and scientifically prove that they have solved anything in particular?

 

[Sadfield]

l'll Brew Up, and await being proved wrong.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

l'll Brew Up, and await being proved wrong.

Or Is Boris Untruthful.

 

[peebee]

This thread makes me wonder if IBU stands for
I’m Bored Utterly

Okay, point taken ...

(Whoever stopped shining that laser light on Cat's wall, can you start doing it again ... Sorry, I know, but he's saying he's bored).