What contributes more to oxidised beer - Headspace or oxygen dissolving during transfer?

[Cheshire Cat]

Does using leaf hops rather than pellets to dry hop reduce oxidation?
Also if you dry hop in the keg does this reduce oxidation?

 

[Cheshire Cat]

From an academic point of view, I was thinking about all types of beer, including very-dry-hopped beers. But from my own practical point of view, I don't brew many hoppy ales (and also have never had a problem with oxidation)

It’s like the Tommy Cooper joke
Me: Doctor I get a pain when I raise my arm above my shoulder.
Doctor: Then don’t do it.

 

[Sadfield]

I recall brewery visits in the 80s and seeing the bottling line, which took a line of bottles along a conveyer belt into a "black box" where they were filled and then the crown corks put on. I don't recall any references to oxidation or purging bottles in what was otherwise a very detailed explanation of the process. If the beer was then pasteurised then head space oxygen would react more quickly with the beer woudn't it?
I fill my bottles with a tube that goes from the tap to about a third of the way down the bottle. The beer splashes gently onto the priming sugar causing the beer to give off some of its dissolved carbon dioxide, pushing the gas content of the bottle up and out of the bottle- thus purging the bottle. It then gets capped. I imagine that's exactly the same thing that happened in the brewery's bottling line. I also recall that there was no mentioned of dry-hopping bottled beers. Dry hopping was for the casks, where a large pellet of compressed hops would be dropped into the cask before sealing it. All sorts of bottled beers have been around for hundreds of years, but this issue with "oxidation" is relatively recent. Are we to assume that a six-month old bottle of Bass, for example would have been horrible? Manet 1881, didn't seem to thing so.
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The world has moved on since 1881, @An Ankoù . It's a fair point though.

There's probably some commonality between that bottle of Bass and the 1980's bottles. On one hand they were bottled versions of cask beers, that by their method of dispense deliberately have had an element of oxidation in their flavour. So, oxidation in the bottled versions wouldn't have tasted out of place.

On the other hand they would also have likely been brewed by brewers who knew what they were doing. That long, vigorous boils with bittering hops would provide antioxidants from maillard reactions and phenols, minimising that oxidation, giving the beer stability over time.

Unfortunately, were in a world where any novice with access to the internet can claim such practices are a myth, outdated or unnecessary. And we see brew day and recipe posts about styles other than NEIPA that are, short or weakly boiled, and only hopped late in the boil. And were in a place where beers can become susceptible to inappropriate levels of oxidation quite easily.

 

[An Ankoù]

The world has moved on since 1881, @An Ankoù . It's a fair point though.

There's probably some commonality between that bottle of Bass and the 1980's bottles. On one hand they were bottled versions of cask beers, that by their method of dispense deliberately have had an element of oxidation in their flavour. So, oxidation in the bottled versions wouldn't have tasted out of place.

On the other hand they would also have likely been brewed by brewers who knew what they were doing. That long, vigorous boils with bittering hops would provide antioxidants from maillard reactions and phenols, minimising that oxidation, giving the beer stability over time.

Unfortunately, were in a world where any novice with access to the internet can claim such practices are a myth, outdated or unnecessary. And we see brew day and recipe posts about styles other than NEIPA that are, short or weakly boiled, and only hopped late in the boil. And were in a place where beers can become susceptible to inappropriate levels of oxidation quite easily.

It's interesting to speculate on whether what we refer to as "old school" today, isn't the outcome of a very long period of trial and error. What you say above makes perfect sense and long boils are too easily fobbed off as a way of getting the most (bitterness) out of your hops at a time when fuel was relatively cheap. I love thumbing through the legacy recipes provided by the **** of Pattinson, Make Mine a McGees and Durden Park and I'm often taken, not only by the boil time, but by the sheer amount of hops chucked into the boil at various stages but rarely at the end. Having made up quite a few of these, I'm also surprised that a beer with, for example, an OG of 1040-1045 and bittered to at least 60 IBUs doesn't taste very bitter at all.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

Does using leaf hops rather than pellets to dry hop reduce oxidation?
Also if you dry hop in the keg does this reduce oxidation?

Leaf hops are marginally more likely to introduce oxygen from the air that gets trapped between the leaves.

I always used to use leaf hops throughout but tend to use pellet in the dry hop addition these days.

 

[Sadfield]

It's interesting to speculate on whether what we refer to as "old school" today, isn't the outcome of a very long period of trial and error.

Indeed. I think it's also easy to fall into the assumption that brewing science is a 21st century thing.