Hoppy APAs and leaving the hops in the wort during fermentation.

[Twostage]

Wow :razz:

My brew has finished fermentation so I had a taste from the trial jar and it's the first time I've actually thought "wow" at the contents of a trial jar. It tastes great even before it's carbonated. Obviously the resident beer critic will need to pass judgement. :hmm:

The beer is a bitter based on (but not a clone of) Theakston's bitter fermented with SO4 and Nottingham, with four hop bombs. I'll post the recipe.

I'll be cold crashing tomorrow and kegging on Sunday. Can't wait.

Wow again.

Kegged it and force carbonated it. Gave the beer critic a sample and she said "ooh, that's nice, can I have a pint ?".

Incredible to think that last Sunday it was boiling away in the Burco and now I'm sitting here drinking a pint of it.

I've saved the trub, going to take the hop bombs out and pitch an Irish Red onto it next weekend.

 

[Twostage]

I hope it works out well for you Myqul. I have had this massive mat of hops sitting on my recent APA for two weeks exactly.

It is about two inches deep and every few days I have been stirring it in. Tomorrow is bottling day, but before I wrack it off, I am going to sieve these out and squeeze out the juices. Then I'll syphon off into a bottling bucket with 5gm / litre of table sugar for carbonation.

Hoppy? I expect so, but no taste trial until tomorrow when I do a gravity check.

Although it sounds 'dangerous' opening up the FV but I bet the layer of hops will act as a barrier to infection.

One thing I keep thinking is the aromatic oils will have boiled off so you aren't getting a dry hop effect. Might sound daft looking at that mass of floating hops but I'd try adding some fresh hops.

 

[Hoppyland]

Although it sounds 'dangerous' opening up the FV but I bet the layer of hops will act as a barrier to infection.

I'd suggest care here. Whatever antibiotic properties hops possess, I'd definitely worry than any active substances would have been leached out of the hops at such a late stage of fermentation. I reckon that beer at this stage is normally protected from most spoilage organisms or oxidation by a protective atmosphere of CO2. I do move my beer between FVs, and to a plastic "cask" to settle it when fermentation has almost finished, but I flood it with CO2 from a food grade cylinder to purge any air at late fermentation stages.
Before I did this, I used to get the odd spoiled brew (mainly the "flaky white scum" of what I believe to be Candida yeast).
Yes, there are certainly anaerobic nasties that could get in and not be fazed by the CO2 blanket, but keeping air out of beer when its nearly fermented out is a basic principle for me.

 

[Tony1951]

Thanks for the comments chaps - all read and thought about. I have become a lot less paranoid about 'infections' lately. The only real risk time is with luke warm unfermented wort where the yeast hasn't got started in my opinion. These beers I am making have an alcohol content that might double as a hospital hand cleanser - :) well, almost. By day two of the fermentation they are at 3 or 4% and by day seven they are at 6 or 7%. Then, the hops are antimicrobial anyway because they are so acidic, which is why they aren't going mouldy and infected in their packets. That bre I pictured above is 6%+ and had 2 inches of acidy hops on top of it. When I stirred them in every few days they were bathed in 6% alcohol - what's to go wrong really. People have been brewing for thousands of years, long before starsan and bleach compounds allowed them to clean anything. Could be I'm being cocky and heading for a fall, but I doubt it. I scrupulously clean my vessels of brewing cack and rinse them in a lightly chlorinated solution before storing them upside down and open in my brewing shed or indoor brewing cupboard. Then I simply rinse with clean hosepipe water and sometimes spray with oxy and rinse again before use. I'be never had a problem.

As for the new brew -

41

I got 43, 500ml bottles and it tastes great even from teh trial jar. Final gravity is 5.8% abv. Come four weeks time, I'll give it a whirl.

Cheers

 

[brumbrew]

I've also left the hops in the FV to no ill effect. The pellet type seem to just sink to the bottom anyways.

I've put a muslin bag of hops in my latest brew after only 12 hours of fermentation.

This I haven't done before, so do you suggest I remove it now or just leave it for a few more days?

Removing it now would mean the CO2 could create a gas blanket over the wort. Doing it in a few days may be risky?

 

[Tony1951]

I've also left the hops in the FV to no ill effect. The pellet type seem to just sink to the bottom anyways.

I've put a muslin bag of hops in my latest brew after only 12 hours of fermentation.

This I haven't done before, so do you suggest I remove it now or just leave it for a few more days?

Removing it now would mean the CO2 could create a gas blanket over the wort. Doing it in a few days may be risky?

In my opinion, you can take it out any time you like as long as whatever you dip in to hook it out is clean.

There is a lot of paranoia about stuff getting in out of the air, I think. I must have done more tha 25 brews this year and I never saw any kind of problem except with a brew that I didn't like the hop and a couple of others where I didn't cool them and they got over bitter. Use only clean gear, and don't whisk air into finished beer. In summer you can get vinegar flies which can spoil a brew, but as far as I know they aren't about now.

 

[Tony1951]

Although it sounds 'dangerous' opening up the FV but I bet the layer of hops will act as a barrier to infection.

One thing I keep thinking is the aromatic oils will have boiled off so you aren't getting a dry hop effect. Might sound daft looking at that mass of floating hops but I'd try adding some fresh hops.

Not so sure about the aroma having boiled off. The late hops in this were not added until the brew had cooled to 80C. Then added them and then after half an hour cooled again quickly to fermentation temperature.

It has turned out one of those 'WOW' brews like yours that you mentioned. I have drunk two bottles already only five days after bottling and they are really nice. Just bursting with hop flavour and a clean finish even at this very early stage. It is clear already, but will no doubt go sparkling bright if kept longer. I can guarantee there has been no ill effect of this dump the whole boiler into the FV on two really nice brews. Centennial, Cacade and Citra as late hops have a wonderful effect.

 

[Twostage]

Wow again.

Kegged it and force carbonated it. Gave the beer critic a sample and she said "ooh, that's nice, can I have a pint ?".

Incredible to think that last Sunday it was boiling away in the Burco and now I'm sitting here drinking a pint of it.

I've saved the trub, going to take the hop bombs out and pitch an Irish Red onto it next weekend.

Irish Red made and pitched over the trub. I think I might have miscalculated the recipe though as it looks more dark brown than red. Think I used twice as much roast barley as was required. It will probably end up as beer though :grin:

 

[MyQul]

Not so sure about the aroma having boiled off. The late hops in this were not added until the brew had cooled to 80C. Then added them and then after half an hour cooled again quickly to fermentation temperature.

It has turned out one of those 'WOW' brews like yours that you mentioned. I have drunk two bottles already only five days after bottling and they are really nice. Just bursting with hop flavour and a clean finish even at this very early stage. It is clear already, but will no doubt go sparkling bright if kept longer. I can guarantee there has been no ill effect of this dump the whole boiler into the FV on two really nice brews. Centennial, Cacade and Citra as late hops have a wonderful effect.

I'm really looking forward to trying my bitter with the hops left in. Should be bottling on thursday so I'll have a little sample of the trial jar then

 

[Tony1951]

Irish Red made and pitched over the trub. I think I might have miscalculated the recipe though as it looks more dark brown than red. Think I used twice as much roast barley as was required. It will probably end up as beer though :grin:

Hope u enjoy the outcome. I am a bit of an old stick in the mud. When I find something I like, I just do teh same thing over and over again. Same with curries and other things. The world may be full of brilliant things that are passing me by, but boring b**** that I am, I just don't care. I just keep knocking out 6.5% APA and English IPA. :) I suppose like my dog, I'm happy with what I know. He just gobbles up his Fish and Potato complete diet. He knows nothing of good curries and fillet steak. :) He DOES like beer though. The little devil has more than once had his head in my tankard when I put it down where he can reach it. He watches me like a hawk when I open a bottle - hoping no doubt to get his tongue into it somehow.

 

[Tony1951]

I'm really looking forward to trying my bitter with the hops left in. Should be bottling on thursday so I'll have a little sample of the trial jar then

I'm looking forward to hearing how it went.

 

[GHW]

Might give this a go then if everyone's going bonkers for it. Will have to fish the hops out of the pan post boil though!

Will try it with one half of my upcoming batch, the eldorado and Amarillo pale.

 

[Tony1951]

Might give this a go then if everyone's going bonkers for it. Will have to fish the hops out of the pan post boil though!

Will try it with one half of my upcoming batch, the eldorado and Amarillo pale.

That's a good test doing them side by side. Not sure why you will have to fish out the late hops though. My APAs don't get their flame out hops until the wort has cooled to 80C. I do this so as to preserve more of the volatile oils which so enhance flavour and aroma. Half an hour after the 80C hops go in , I do a rapid cool and leave them in. I do this because the style requires big volatile component.

 

[GHW]

That's a good test doing them side by side. Not sure why you will have to fish out the late hops though. My APAs don't get their flame out hops until the wort has cooled to 80C. I do this so as to preserve more of the volatile oils which so enhance flavour and aroma. Half an hour after the 80C hops go in , I do a rapid cool and leave them in. I do this because the style requires big volatile component.

My pans got a tap so the hops get left on once the worst drained, will have to take them out with a sieve and chuck in the fv with the wort.

I do the same with FO hops, though I sometimes end up forgetting to add them as a result.

 

[MyQul]

My pans got a tap so the hops get left on once the worst drained, will have to take them out with a sieve and chuck in the fv with the wort.

I do the same with FO hops, though I sometimes end up forgetting to add them as a result.

You could put you late hops in a hop bag then take it out of your boiler when the wort's drained and put it in the FV with wort

 

[dad_of_jon]

I'd suggest care here. Whatever antibiotic properties hops possess, I'd definitely worry than any active substances would have been leached out of the hops at such a late stage of fermentation. I reckon that beer at this stage is normally protected from most spoilage organisms or oxidation by a protective atmosphere of CO2. I do move my beer between FVs, and to a plastic "cask" to settle it when fermentation has almost finished, but I flood it with CO2 from a food grade cylinder to purge any air at late fermentation stages.
Before I did this, I used to get the odd spoiled brew (mainly the "flaky white scum" of what I believe to be Candida yeast).
Yes, there are certainly anaerobic nasties that could get in and not be fazed by the CO2 blanket, but keeping air out of beer when its nearly fermented out is a basic principle for me.

I'm a big fan of co2 - I purge my bottling bucket of air with it to reduce the chance of oxidization bugs etc.

 

[Twostage]

I'm a big fan of co2 - I purge my bottling bucket of air with it to reduce the chance of oxidization bugs etc.

Interesting article in byo about this https://byo.com/stories/issue/item/3267-high-abv-mr-wizard

extract below :-

So how can this be applied to homebrewing? For starters, if you do want to blanket a carboy or bottle with carbon dioxide you need to add the carbon dioxide to the bottom of the container. If you add it to the top of the container it will sink and mix with the air and never form a solid layer at the bottom. And if you use this method you need to diffuse the flow. A gas diffuser stone works great for this method. A cheap aquarium stone slipped onto the end of a gas stone will do the trick.

 

[pms67]

I have just bottled my Cooper's European Lager which has had the 100g of Falconers Flight hop pellets in it for.around two weeks, tastes amazing, time will tell.

 

[BeerCat]

Cool thread! I am doing no chill BIAB, flame out in around 80c then leaving overnight and pitching to a fresh FV. Is there really a lot of difference cos i suppose i could throw the strainer hops back in? Just thinking about harvesting the yeast at the end. Could rack again before i dry hop. What do you guys do regarding yeast?

 

[GHW]

You could put you late hops in a hop bag then take it out of your boiler when the wort's drained and put it in the FV with wort

Good call. Will do that. Plus a big dry hop obviously!