First time using carrageenan extract as a final addition fining and it didn't go as well as i thought, any comments?

[john48]

As per the title.. I brewed a beer recent which I have brewed many times over the last couple of decades, just a typical style brown ale, mix of marris otter and various crystals.

I've never bothered with any finings in previous brews as it always tastes like it should and a cloudy beer for this style to me at least seems to be normal.

Anyhow, last time I was at the LBS they had an offer on some carrageenan extract which according to the packet can be used as an Irish moss substitute according to the packet, 1 tsp of this white powder per 5 gallon 15 mins before end of boil. So I bought it and tried it in this batch of ale just to see what difference a clear beer would make.

Brew went normally using my standard equipment, fermented with S-04 which is usually very fast and flocculates like a champ.

This brew has been sitting for about two weeks after finishing at the target FG. the sample i took from near the top seemed very clear and good flavour, all looked well.

Come to bottle it today and there is just so much dark brown jelly like yeast type gunk floating in it it is hard to fill a bottle without getting at least a couple of teaspoons worth of the jelly like goop in it, even racking it back and forth a few times which is probably detrimental to the beer with oxidisation etc but by this point I was willing to try anything.

So what went wrong? Could too much of that extract have caused the issue? It tastes fine so I don't think any wild strains of yeast got to it.

If I had a fridge big enough to fit the fermenter in (10 gallon) i'd have tried cold crashing it but in the end I just tossed it out as it was too much hassle to try and bottle it.

Also apart from trying a fridge (which i dont have anything big enough to fit it in anyway) is there anything else I could have done to try and save it?

Tempted to run another smaller batch as an experiment but would be nice to know what happened.

 

[YeastFace]

Carrageenan is extracted from Irish Moss, so it sounds like this is just a powdered substitute.

It does have a gelatinous effect (which is why Carrageenan is used in vegetarian-friendly jellies etc) but I've never had it make it's way from the kettle to fermenter as it usually drops out and becomes part of the trub.

 

[john48]

thanks for the reply...

Yeah very weird, I thought i'd left as much of it in the boil kettle as I could but I guess some of it made its way into the fermenter.. the whole yeast cake didnt really flocculate or compact like it usually does.. going to brew up another batch and boil it in two separate kettles and try one with the extract and one without and see if I can reproduce the situation, i've read since posting several people have had issues when using irish moss / extract before...

would be nice if I could use it though as the beer without junk it in was definatly clear but the trouble with trying to get the junk out of it so much hassle!

 

[Bolsover Brewer]

I think the obvious answer would be you must have carried trub from the kettle to the fermenter. The whole idea of using carrageenan is to leave all the congealed trub in the kettle and get clear wort into the fermenter. I have never heard of a cloudy brown ale being normal for the style!
Decant the wort from the kettle carefully, make sure none of the trub gets into the fermenter and I think you will see an improvement in the finished beer.

 

[john48]

thanks for the reply.. yes I think that is what must have happened.. brown ale is a bit of a catch all term, its more of a victorian era strong ale.. it's hard to tell unless you put a light through it as its dark but a bit of turbidity just seemed part of the course for me :)

will have another go with that irish moss extract powder but split the boil into two kettles.

have you used irish moss or similar before? Some people say you can decant the wort as soon as its cooled down while others say leave it at least 3 hours to ensure everything has dropped and to avoid carry over...

 

[YeastFace]

I use whirlfoc which AFAIK is a mix of irish moss and the carageenan extract, and used to use irish moss.

It should set/jel at 30-50°c so well above post-cooled wort temparture at which point it woll drop out and form part of the trub.

I've never heard of waiting 3 hours before drawing off the wort.

 

[Bolsover Brewer]

thanks for the reply.. yes I think that is what must have happened.. brown ale is a bit of a catch all term, its more of a victorian era strong ale.. it's hard to tell unless you put a light through it as its dark but a bit of turbidity just seemed part of the course for me :)

will have another go with that irish moss extract powder but split the boil into two kettles.

have you used irish moss or similar before? Some people say you can decant the wort as soon as its cooled down while others say leave it at least 3 hours to ensure everything has dropped and to avoid carry over...

I use Irish moss every brew, cool wort immediately as boil finishes.I have tried all sorts of contraptions to eliminate getting any trub into the fermenter and have settled with a siphon.
I don't bother with a whirlpool, leaving the cooling coil in position seems to direct most of the trub into the centre of the kettle. Remove coil gently and start to clean up so leaving the transfer to fermenter for about an hour.
I then make sure that nothing but clear wort gets into the fermenter.

 

[starseeker]

Could you not just tie a gauze filter over the siphon tube which is in the FV ?I do this for every batch to keep any gunk out of my bottles .As for the finnings,i use irish moss ,but only use about a third of a tea spoon for a 23l batch ,could you of maybe used to much ?