Electric cars.

[kenstel]

Firstly, it's not up to me to explain religion. Why would I do that when I don't understand it. However religious believers will give reasons why they believe, never known one who wouldn't if asked. The fact I might not be convinced by whst they say is irrelevant, at least they can explain their views. That isn't what I posted about here.

Overall, if someone is influenced by someone else's opinions, then they should say that. Similarly, if they just have 'emotional' views without science or fact, then explain that.

How can you 'persuade' them if they're secretative about why they hold certain views?

If you have no 'facts' or reasons behind your views, then you're just a bigot imho, and if you're not willing to reveal the source that influences you, then maybe you shouldn't be influenced by it, because obviously you must feel embarrassed about it or feel it won't stand up to scrutiny.

Apart from that, simply throwing random things into a DISCUSSION without any substance or debate is trolling. Some people are like that, they get off on causing upset.

Anyway, I resisted this thread for a long time because of the unsubstantiated posts, but I thought I had a few relevant points to balance the unsubstantiated opposition to green energy and EVs. I've made those points and now think it's in danger of being a talking shop for the sake of it and moving off topic, so I'll ignore the thread and leave you all to it, and I wish you all well.

In my view, no one has offered any serious rebuttal to the points I made and that convinces me that I don't have any more on-topic points to make.

Bon voyage, mi amigas

 

[MattH1973]

not getting into religion - but to nuance the point a little bit is that I actually think it is fine to post opinion in a discussion - and much of these threads are just that. Certain opinions and beliefs are just hard wired - take politics for example - some feel that the state should be smaller, intervene less and charge lower taxes, and some feel the state should be larger, intervene more and charge higher taxes. Neither side is right or wrong - it is just an instinctive belief - and there is nothing wrong with stating this.

Of course, it always enriches the discussion when people can provide meaningful and substantive examples. ie the high tax group could point to the creation of the NHS as a sign they are right, and the low tax group could point toward the collapse of communism in eastern europe to state their case.

I think what is a problem is when people misrepresent beliefs as fact, or rely on dubious sources (and to be fair, the multitude of fake news on the internet does make this a challenge) or very isolated anecdotes to claim their case is somehow proven.

Have a good new year, all !

 

[MashBag]

Be careful...

https://2cev.co.uk/

 

[hoppyscotty]

Wasn't intending to get into a debate about religion...it was just an example of people having opinions that they can't back up with logic, reason, science etc. in contrast to a comment made implying that your opinion is not somehow valid if you cant back it up with some form of quantitive data or proof. We base opinions sometimes as much on instinct and feelings as much as we do about hard logic and evidence. And in somecases it matters...if you're designing an airliner then of course science and engineering matters. But if you are talking wether or not you prefer ICE cars over electric cars, then that is completely subjective and someone who doesn't like EVs because they don't make an engine noise is a perfectly valid opinion as someone who likes EV's because they are more efficient and has completed a Phd thesis demonstrating the physics to prove it.

And yes, Happy new year to all. I've just spend the last hour bottling a keg of homebrew to take around to some friends, so will be seeing the new year in with a rather good batch (if I do say so myself) of an easy drinking New Zealand hopped Pale Ale.

 

[Justin Dean]

Obviously the cast majority of people can not afford an electric car so the debate is pointless

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I liked the original 2CV so wouldn't be put off by the looks the only downside is the limited range but if you only do short journeys itll be fine, it also only takes 3 hours to charge from empty on a standard 3 pin plug charger.

How far can I go on a full charge?​

The range on our 2cEv is approximately 65 miles real world range. We drove our 2cEv from our workshop to the National motor museum in Beaulieu and part of the way back (driving normally) and the range was 65.86 miles. Plus on our Journey we passed a number of places we could of stopped and charged our 2cEv.

 

[Alastair70]

Obviously the cast majority of people can not afford an electric car so the debate is pointless

One of the cheapest cars on the road is an EV, and there are plenty of options around the 25k mark.
We’ve already discussed the savings on fuel costs and servicing a number of times so I won’t drag them up again.

 

[dad_of_jon]

To those who commented on voice control. Lol. Yeah. I get it. I find voice recognition in my new car pretty good. Don't think I've ever fooled it. My wife found out a command that turned the temperature way up - about 4 degrees. I then found you could increase it by however many degrees you wanted. I haven't tried anything stupid like 27 degrees, but theoretically...

Don't forget, voice recognition is relatively new, there in the background for years, but not widely used, and its EXTREMELY complicated. The actual technology isn't, but the wide range of Accents, even within one country, and, in English particularly, the way a group of letters can be pronounced differently eg cough (coff) vs though (thowe), or the way a word can be pronounced differently eg hook (huk vs huke), same with book, look etc, make intelligent recognition difficult.. These things always confuse foreigners, so how does a foreigner make a programme to understand a language even he doesn't understand?

I remember installing dragon dictate around 2010 when it was deemed by my company to 'retire' the typists. Then you had to train the software by tuning it to the individual it took around 90 mins of speaking required words to get it tuned to your voice. I rolled it out to a department of non typers. It worked brilliantly in the morning but less so in the afternoon especially Friday afternoon. I discovered there was a correlation between people having drinkies at lunchtimes and recognition in the afternoon. Rumour had it that someone phoned in sick because they had a cold and the computer wouldn't understand them.

More recently you just point the software at a bunch of docs you've authored( to work out your writing style) and it uses that with about 10 mins voice training to get a far superior success rate.

So the voice recognition systems in cars can be very good as long as you speak clearly and the noise in the cabin is low and the mic is of good quality and well positioned.

A standard would be great but even for something as simple as a gearstick there is variation, where is your reverse situated? do you need you lift a collar to engage it? or push it down and across?

 

[Justin Dean]

One of the cheapest cars on the road is an EV, and there are plenty of options around the 25k mark.
We’ve already discussed the savings on fuel costs and servicing a number of times so I won’t drag them up again.

All the cars I have bought have been under 25k and most people do not even spend that

 

[Rodcx500z]

Dearest one i have bought is the Juke we have now 20 plate, someone paid almost 21k for it put 4500 miles on it then lost 6k, it now has 11500 on it, cheapest i bought £75-00 quid 2cv put a clutch in it did the inboard front pads put an ignitech on it walla 80,000 miles later sold it for £300-00, and even to this day the misses still talks about ride quality and i can't argue

 

[JockyBrewer]

All the cars I have bought have been under 25k and most people do not even spend that

The technology is relatively young. Cheaper cars (particularly 2nd hand) will come.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

even to this day the misses still talks about ride quality and i can't argue

Good or bad?

 

[Alastair70]

All the cars I have bought have been under 25k and most people do not even spend that

But one of the cheapest cars on the road is an EV so you don’t need to. And you don’t have to buy new.

 

[Nicks90]

It's a simple trade off.
Pay repayments on 25k for a car and pay for petrol for 10k miles a year + road tax + servicing
Or pay repayments on a 40k EV and pay peanuts for electricity for 10k miles a year

If you can charge at home then it really is even Stevens on the sums. And if you go for an EV tariff then your quids in.
I have a spreadsheet somewhere comparing various middle of the road ice cars like golfs and Citroens to a Tesla model Y from when I had the opportunity to swap.
In nearly all situations it's was even give or take about £200 a year.
Yep, not joking. That chap motoring about in a Tesla Y is probably paying about the same over 5 years as the chap rattling about in a Citroen c3 1l eurobox

 

[Kit-brewer]

Or buy n MG 4 or ZS ev for around £28-£32k and be even better off!

 

[MashBag]

I wonder what effect "repayments" has as against purchasing.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Or buy n MG 4 or ZS ev for around £28-£32k and be even better off!

They had a bad reputation for rusting -

 

[Rodcx500z]

Good or bad?

Good most comfy car ever

 

[Nicks90]

I wonder what effect "repayments" has as against purchasing.

Depends how you want to do it.
But based on buying outright using a loan for the full amount over 5 years...


Tesla is £800 per month with 10k miles per year is approx £20 per month electric
25k Citroen is £500 per month
Citroen c4 with 10k miles per year is £150 pm in fuel, over the 5 years is £25pm car tax, £20pm servicing
So £120 per month cheaper.


But based on PCP balloon payments to calculate how much your asset is worth once the 5 year loan is paid off, the Tesla will be worth £22k and the Citroen about £12k
Therefore your extra £120 per month over 5 years actually equates to a £10000 more valuable asset......

Doing it via PCP with a similar £2500 down payment and handing the keys back after 4 years.... The cost is actually cheaper by £50 pm for the Tesla after fuel etc factored in.

 

[MashBag]

I did mean purchasing. No interest payments at all.