Electric cars.

[dad_of_jon]

Surely the chart above is heavily impacted by lockdown (even accounting for the slightly misleading scale on the y axis), so I am not sure this adds much. On the broader point it seems we are at an impasse - I have said many times now that I agree the proportion of journeys that need a public charger will be very small, I even said in my previous post that there was no need to repeat it as I had acknowledged I agreed - but that does not deal with my point that the ratio of cars to chargers matters, and will be important in giving a critical mass of drivers the confidence to make the switch. Put another way, as a bare minimum I am sure we could manage with less petrol stations than we have now, but convenience matters.



The above said, I do take the points that increased range and better tech to help people find chargers will help reduce the overall need. Nevertheless, my sense is that many more chargers will be needed in key locations like motorway services, as only a relative minority of people will want to hunt around for a charger. Presumably this is why we are starting to see queues at motorway points today being reported in the media. Confidence matters, and most users wont always be as rational as the patient home brewers on here. And assuming on street chargers for people who cannot home charge will in practice be public chargers, I still feel the ratio will need to substantially improve.

I realise others feel differently - time will tell who is right. I think we have probably gone as far as we can on the theory !

There were refueling opportunities in inverness etc literally on the route I took. don't know why google is scotland blind

my car goes better/further and has more power on momentum 99 ron e5 so that's what I prefer to feed it.

 

[dad_of_jon]

In March 2022, three months after getting the car we drove from south Essex to Inverness. We left home with a full charge putting the destination in sat nav and the car directed us to the chargers we needed to stop at on route. As we started to approach the charger the batteries entered pre conditioning mode so they got prepared to accept the fast charge and could charge faster. When we got to each charger we just plugged it in and the car told us when we had enough charge to get to the next one. All in all we stopped three times to charge on the 575 mile trip. Ferrybridge for 17 minutes, Gretna for 19 minutes and Perth for 15 minutes.

This is a cool real life situation My experience in my car is one 5 min stop for the same distance (I love tesco pay at pump ). The big question is does this difference matter to you?

 

[MattH1973]

Are you on some kind of wind up the chart spans 10 years how can it be heavily impacted by the COVID lockdown?

Even if you take the mid point at 7000 miles you are still only looking at 135 miles per week so my original argument about the majority of EV owners not needing public chargers still stands.

You keep banging on about lack of chargers this is in your head not in the real world as has been said several times by actual owners here if you charge at home (as i imagine 99% of all EV drivers do) you dont need to use a public charger, on the odd occasion you do venture further from home you will find as has been discussed in the two posts below charging points are not like hens teeth as you keep trying to make out!

Have another read of actual owners experience again -

I will try and keep this brief, although fwiw my advice to you would be to try not to get so irate.

1. I thought the point you were trying to make with that particular chart was the drop-off on 2020 and 2021 - which was obviously lockdown. Sorry that I misunderstood.

2. Once again, I have agreed (many times now) that only a small minority of journeys need public chargers - although as EV take-up increases this proportion is likely to increase due to lack of home chargers and the lack of an ICE alternative for longer journeys. The debate here is a judgement as to whether more chargers are needed or not. We clearly have different judgements but let's try to stay polite.

3. A big part of this, if the govt is to achieve its objective of more EV take-up, is enabling charging for people who cannot charge at home. Therefore your imagined 99% will likely reduce with time. To make new users confident will need more chargers.

4. As i have also said before, one or two anecdotes are all very well but I am trying to look at overall picture. If I pointed to a handful of cool summer days that wouldn't be a counter argument to climate change.

I wont reply again to this thread until tomorrow afternoon at the earliest, in the hope we can take some heat out of it. I think perhaps we just don't communicate on the same wavelength. That happens sometimes, and enjoying a brew is more important !

Best wishes.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Once again, I have agreed (many times now) that only a small minority of journeys need public chargers - although as EV take-up increases this proportion is likely to increase due to lack of home chargers and the lack of an ICE alternative for longer journeys.

Its obvious more public chargers will be needed as the cut off for ICE sales gets closer but as i said and as owners have testified here there is not a problem at the moment and will not be in the future as more are added we are talking 17 years until the sale of ICE ends people are not going to flood into car dealers next year to buy an EV especially if they cannot charge at home take up will be slow and steady and close to 100% of new EV buyers over the next few years will be those that can charge at home for all the reasons we have discussed and mainly by those *who are not going to try to do 120 miles a day in their new EV.
*They are not banning ICE car use after the 2035 sale ban all the drivers who travel great distances will carry on diving ICE cars for many years to come.

8 years ago an EV could only travel 120 miles on a charge we are now getting 200 - 500 by the time the 2035 cut off comes we may be getting 500 - 800 and charging time may come down to a few minutes, we will need more chargers for those that cannot charge at home and those doing longer distances but we may not need to use them as often

3. A big part of this, if the govt is to achieve its objective of more EV take-up, is enabling charging for people who cannot charge at home. Therefore your imagined 99% will likely reduce with time. To make new users confident will need more chargers.

Again as i said above we are not going to be forced out of our ICE cars when the sales of ICE vehicles starts in 2035 people will carry on driving their ICE cars until they decide to change this could mean many still on the road from 2035 to 2050 at which time they will be getting a bit long in the tooth and i imagine fuel prices will drive owners into EVs so we have at least 12 - 27 years to get charging for those with no off street parking sorted, there are already companies looking at on street parking i dont think this is going to be the big issue you think it is.

 

[soupdragon]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-67005620
Cheers Tom

 

[Benfleet Brewery]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-67005620
Cheers Tom

So, It was stuck at 30mph but dropped to 15mph at a roundabout then the police let him crash into them at “low speed”? So it wasn’t stuck at 30mph then?

 

[dad_of_jon]

So, It was stuck at 30mph but dropped to 15mph at a roundabout then the police let him crash into them at “low speed”? So it wasn’t stuck at 30mph then?

clearly not! - maybe the stability control overode the accelerator input to stop the car overturning.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Here is the new charger i mentioned earlier after it was installed they are definitely getting more use, i haven't seen two cars on them at the the time.

 

[AlBrew]

View attachment 90605

Funny but also very likely faked for clicks?

If you were doing this would you post it on the Internet and advertise the location?

 

[AlBrew]

This is a cool real life situation My experience in my car is one 5 min stop for the same distance (I love tesco pay at pump ). The big question is does this difference matter to you?

I've gone the past 12 months ~ 15k miles with only 2 public charger stops totalling about 45mins and one service station stop to buy oil for my mates van that had konked out.
Verses (a very conservative) 3 hours of ICE 5 min stops per year for the same distance + the detours from route and possible pump queues and being tempted by overpriced Ginsters pasties... I think the difference you highlight might be in the other direction when looking at overall time wasted refuelling.

Disclosure - I am among the priveliged who has a garage and keeps it empty enough to fit a car in for charging.

 

[gavp1979]

I've gone the past 12 months ~ 15k miles with only 2 public charger stops totalling about 45mins and one service station stop to buy oil for my mates van that had konked out.
Verses (a very conservative) 3 hours of ICE 5 min stops per year for the same distance + the detours from route and possible pump queues and being tempted by overpriced Ginsters pasties... I think the difference you highlight might be in the other direction when looking at overall time wasted refuelling.

Disclosure - I am among the priveliged who has a garage and keeps it empty enough to fit a car in for charging.

A garage ... for a car that's absolute madness! you should fill it with ***** like the rest of us

 

[gavp1979]

Been caught out by the forum censoring it was meant to by fill it with rubbish (but the actual word rhymed with white)

 

[Kit-brewer]

Garage...Full of assorted things that will use...honest...promise...mmm damn, I have one of those but I can't find it, must have lent it too a mate... I'll just buy a spare...only.costs £50, wife won't know!!
Car on the drive just about able to reach the charger!!

 

[gavp1979]

Garage...Full of assorted things that will use...honest...promise...mmm damn, I have one of those but I can't find it, must have lent it too a mate... I'll just buy a spare...only.costs £50, wife won't know!!
Car on the drive just about able to reach the charger!!

Yep that's what garages were designed for

 

[jof]

Yep that's what garages were designed for

Well you can't fit a modern car into most garages.
Garage sizes appear to have been standardised for moris minors & cars of that age.

 

[gavp1979]

Well you can't fit a modern car into most garages.
Garage sizes appear to have been standardised for moris minors & cars of that age.

I can hardly fit my car on to my drive never mind into the garage, it is as if someone measured the width of a car but never thought that you need to open the doors to get out (there are walls on either side), and that's before considering that anything less than an SUV bottoms out because it goes downhill

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Will this be the way we get a full charge in the future 3 minutes to swap a battery, they are using these swap stations now in some countries -

 

[dad_of_jon]

Well you can't fit a modern car into most garages.
Garage sizes appear to have been standardised for moris minors & cars of that age.

I could get my car into our integral garage, I just couldn't get out of the car though

 

[dad_of_jon]

I think the difference you highlight might be in the other direction when looking at overall time wasted refuelling.

It certainly is overall, especially as local only driving can be charge at home. But on our longer trips, North of scotland , Switzerland etc. It would be a good few hours extra. Unless we had overnight charging in the hotel car park.