Just been reading that John Lewis, Aviva and others are stopping insuring Tesla model y, i did a quick google and it seems to be true but who knows
Electric cars.
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not sure i'd want to tow one doing 90 ish....
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Model Y have always had a really high insurance group, like higher than most Porsche 911's, as they have better acceleration than most 911's but more importantly Thatcham (who assign cars to insurance groups) really don't like the security of Tesla's app-based "car keys" (the Y has the same system as the Model 3 that was rated as "Basic" (the worst) by Thatcham). And there's a couple of other Tesla-specific things, like the Model Y is really badly designed, the tailgate sticks out further than the rear bumper so a minor touch trashes a £££ tailgate rather than a cheap bumper, and the long delays for Tesla spares mean that courtesy car costs are higher than for other cars.
So you can see why insurers don't like the Y, but that's not a general EV thing.
It's not just a Tesla thing ....
Apparently JLR are disputing they have had crisis meetings with insurers and police about so many people being refused insurance on their evoques, velars and rangie sports. They say it's a bogus story, but the reality is they are one of the most stolen brands of motor and insurance in cities is nigh on impossible to get.
And when you can get insurance, expect a least 150% rise in premium
Apparently JLR are disputing they have had crisis meetings with insurers and police about so many people being refused insurance on their evoques, velars and rangie sports. They say it's a bogus story, but the reality is they are one of the most stolen brands of motor and insurance in cities is nigh on impossible to get.
And when you can get insurance, expect a least 150% rise in premium
Yeah, apparently a nightmare trying to get a Range Rover insured in London. Not sure why on earth you'd want to drive a Range Rover in London anyway, but that's besides the point.
i think national grid capacity is quite a limiting issue..... and i predict will be for many years to come....
No its isn't and this has been discussed in the thread several times as the anti EV members of public always use it as a reason we shouldn't be moving to EV.
sorry if i missed it earlier in the thread Chippy, but the Head of Moto apparently thinks grid connections are an issue....
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/busines...t-shortage-driver-disputes-motorway-services/
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/electric-...eqJf1Z0xc36J9sGwm4p8ueAdFAECro64WMyIZNzLbe1Tn
I'd be interested in why you can state so conclusively that this isnt a problem ?
And if grid connections / capacity are not the issue..... what is the reason why the number of charging points is accelerating less slowly than the number of Evs, therefore making the problem worse ?
And, I think the phrase "anti EV brigade" is rather unhelpful as it makes the discussion very black and white. I think it is clear that 100pct EV will not be the answer (at least for a generation), and nor will 0pct EV. The answer is a blend of technologies which i have tried to argue since getting involved in this thread.
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From the horses mouth.
2. Do the electricity grid's wires have enough capacity for charging EVs?
The simple answer is yes. The highest peak electricity demand in the UK in recent years was 62GW in 2002. Since then, the nation’s peak demand has fallen by roughly 16% due to improvements in energy efficiency.Even if we all switched to EVs overnight, we estimate demand would only increase by around 10%. So we’d still be using less power as a nation than we did in 2002, and this is well within the range the grid can capably handle.
Nevertheless, at National Grid we’re working with the distribution networks, government, the regulator and industry to provide the green energy infrastructure around Britain – the wires, the connections to charge points – to support the needs of a decarbonised transport network into the future.
In the US, the grid is equally capable of handling more EVs on the roads – by the time 80% of the US owns an EV, this will only translate into a 10-15% increase in electricity consumption.
https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/journey-to-net-zero/electric-vehicles-myths-misconceptions
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You should have read the whole thread all your points have been answered already.
As most EV owners charge at home the need for rapid chargers at the moment is fairly low we have 10 and I have never seen both in each car park being used at the same time, EV sales will not take off until the option for on street parking becomes a thing as it says in the article above uptake is gradual we are not all going to change to EV in the next couple of years so chargers will be installed as demand becomes greater. .
Take this forum as an example only two that I know of run a EV and I bet they have off street parking.
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Ah the dilemmas of the rich
I'm slightly concerned at the heat in your tone, which i hope we can take out of this discussion. I have read a lot of the thread - but the point i make in the last couple of pages is different - because the govt are incentivising new cars more effectively than they are incentivising the installation of rapid chargers, the problems the Moto boss describes are getting worse. Because the ratio of cars to chargers is worsening. Whilst you are right that most charging is at home as the take up of EVs increasing the demand on public charging points is already increasing and the experience is getting worse for many people. I might therefore put it the other way around to how you do above - if the govt wants EVs to really take off the public charging infra must be build proactively. Otherwise stories about major delays will get worse and this will damage the take up.
Also the grid link below is helpful, thanks for that. The obvious question though is what it behind the issue that Moto are calling out if everything with the grid is apparently fine ?.
I'm also slightly sceptical about some of their "myths". For example - charging time on a long journey. Yes, I might stop for 15 mins on a journey today but I do this when and where I want, and that 15 mins includes about 5 mins refuelling. If I charge an EV 20 mins is the absolute best case, and that assumes there is a fast charger available at the same frequency as petrol stations, and that they wont all be occupied. I would guess something like 95% of petrol journeys involve refuelling stops of less than 15 mins total (including coffee, toilet etc). I strongly suspect the total duration for an average EV stop, including going out of your way to find a charger, and messing around with incompatible apps etc, is way longer.
In theory, all this should improve, but we haven't yet seen that in practice. And this is why ikt is so damaging that the average experience is getting worse, as EV take-up outruns charger installation. As demonstrated by Moto now feeling the need to marshal the stations.
I only use motorway service stations for a quick bite and a loo break. Heaven forbid I should fuel or charge up at one. Their energy is charged at a higher rate so no way would I want to be eating service station food. - I stop at major supermarkets just off the motorway network. They have a cafe and toilets, fuel is cheaper it's just a better experience. worked well on a trip up to scotland saved over 10p a litre, so I wonder what charging uptake is like at supermarket given the shoppers are usually local and many may be able to charge from home?
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It could be argued you need to be rich to own and run an ICE vehicle!
It could be argued you need to be rich to own and run an ICE vehicle!
Do you own an EV? I’m asking because I’d like to know if this is your opinion based on your experience as an EV owner or your perception based on what you have been led to believe it’s like for EV owners.
If you make regular long journeys and/or can’t charge from home and have to use public chargers all or most of the time then an EV is probably not for you. Partly because of the cost (although it’s probably still cheaper per mile than in a ICE) but more because of the time spent charging. EV owners dont charge away from home unless they have to just like drivers of ICE vehicles don’t fill up at motorway services unless they have to.
I don't own an EV, because of the issues around range and public charging i highlight in these posts. There is no reason for me to deal with the hassle of range anxiety on a long journey. And it isn't worth owning a separate car just for short local journeys. Maybe that will change when my son passes his test, depending on whether EVs are insurable for 17 year olds.
As ever, opinions on all sides are formed from what we read, what our friends tell us, and what is in the media. there is surely some propaganda on all sides but the issues raised by the head honcho of Moto read pretty compellingly to me. I have thought for many years that these are real issues, and i don't yet see enough being done to deal with them.
I'm trying to make points not on individual use cases, but on macro data. I therefore suggest that not being one of those individual use case doesn't disqualify one from forming a view. And now that i think about it, my opinion is very relevant for those advocating a 100% EV take up, because by definition I am one of the 100%.
For the avoidance of doubt, I have always thought, and said here, that for certain use cases EVs seem to work very well. It's the further roll out i am interested in.
Ok, so this is only your perception, got it.
Honestly, there is no such thing as range anxiety. It has never crossed my mind and neither has it ever been even close to being an issue for me. Forget what you read, there are enough chargers for you to get wherever you want without even needing to worry about it. Let’s face it, if electric cars were running out of charge all over the place the media would be all over it. It’s not happening. It’s a myth.
I bought my EV in December 2021. I do almost all of my charging at home but we do make regular trips from South Essex to Lincoln (165 miles each way). I leave home with a full charge and get to Lincoln with around 45% charge left. I plug it in to a 22kw charger in the car park we use across the road from my daughters Uni and after 45 minutes I’ve topped up enough to get me home again. Total electricity cost for the whole trip less than £10.00.
In March 2022, three months after getting the car we drove from south Essex to Inverness. We left home with a full charge putting the destination in sat nav and the car directed us to the chargers we needed to stop at on route. As we started to approach the charger the batteries entered pre conditioning mode so they got prepared to accept the fast charge and could charge faster. When we got to each charger we just plugged it in and the car told us when we had enough charge to get to the next one. All in all we stopped three times to charge on the 575 mile trip. Ferrybridge for 17 minutes, Gretna for 19 minutes and Perth for 15 minutes.
thanks for replying - your experience certainly sounds good.
I promise I don't mean to sound snippy here - but whilst my opinions on EVs are my perception, couldnt the same be said about your statement on range anxiety. You dont suffer from it and thats great, but it's become a wide enough phenomenon to be named. Surely this hasnt all just been made up ?
And the media do seem to be reporting on "charger wars" and long queues as raised by the CEO of Moto over the weekend. As one of the main target providers of fast charging on long routes then there is likely something to the issues he raises ? Put another way, it surely cannot be as simple as saying EVs are utopia and that's it ?
All that said, I do think your point about the sat nav helping you find suitable chargers in the right place is a good one. Tech can help with this issue more. What car do you have btw ? The sat nav and charging experience sounds excellent.
I promise I don't mean to sound snippy here - but whilst my opinions on EVs are my perception, couldnt the same be said about your statement on range anxiety. You dont suffer from it and thats great, but it's become a wide enough phenomenon to be named. Surely this hasnt all just been made up ?
And the media do seem to be reporting on "charger wars" and long queues as raised by the CEO of Moto over the weekend. As one of the main target providers of fast charging on long routes then there is likely something to the issues he raises ? Put another way, it surely cannot be as simple as saying EVs are utopia and that's it ?
All that said, I do think your point about the sat nav helping you find suitable chargers in the right place is a good one. Tech can help with this issue more. What car do you have btw ? The sat nav and charging experience sounds excellent.
You’re right. I should have worded it differently. Anxiety is a fear so it is not correct to say that is a myth. I’m trying to say that the risk of running out of charge is so low people shouldn’t be scared of it but appreciate it’s the same with being scared of the dark or spiders. I suppose the main difference is the media isn’t constantly telling people how scary the dark and spiders are 😉
Re the “charger wars”, I wouldn’t mind betting that for every charger point with a queue there are others close by with vacant chargers that the media don’t show on the news. Perhaps it’s not the number of chargers that’s the issue, more likely the absence of adequate technology giving the ability to see which ones are free.
I have a Tesla model 3. If I’m on my way to a Tesla supercharger point and it gets busy it will re route me to another automatically if doing so is a better option.
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