Electric cars.

[dad_of_jon]

It's a petrol no mention of hybrid in the description.

I would have bought an orange toyota c-hr but I didn't comfortably fit in it. Whilst browsing thorough the specs of that car the 1.8 had a different hybrid battery to the 2.0 and I wanted the 2.0 the 1.8 having Nimh battery chemistry instead of li-ion.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I would have bought an orange toyota c-hr but I didn't comfortably fit in it. Whilst browsing thorough the specs of that car the 1.8 had a different hybrid battery to the 2.0 and I wanted the 2.0 the 1.8 having Nimh battery chemistry instead of li-ion.

I like the shape but have never sat in a C-HR they get good reviews, i am thinking of going Corolla hybrid next i was looking at the Yaris Cross but its not much bigger than what i already have.

 

[dad_of_jon]

I like the shape but have never sat in a C-HR they get good reviews, i am thinking of going Corolla hybrid next i was looking at the Yaris Cross but its not much bigger than what i already have.

I did also save 12K as the c-hr was 30k and my vitara was 18K. looking at a video of the actual burning car it was an suv
the lights look similar to a cx-5 or cx-60 or maybe a jlr , it certainly doesn't look like a tesla. I've been doing car tail-light quizzes on-line to try and identify the tail lights. I'm getting 7 or 8 out of 10.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I did also save 12K as the c-hr was 30k and my vitara was 18K. looking at a video of the actual burning car it was an suv
the lights look similar to a cx-5 or cx-60 or maybe a jlr , it certainly doesn't look like a tesla. I've been doing car tail-light quizzes on-line to try and identify the tail lights. I'm getting 7 or 8 out of 10.

According to the description its a Rav 4 but it looks too big to me more like an old Land Cruiser.

 

[dad_of_jon]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/n...ange-Rover-ablaze-Luton-airport-car-park.html
range rover sport perhaps

they do phev versions 38kw battery I don't have the battery specs for the mhev. some versions i.e. the signature one can do 180mph and 0-60 in 3.6

 

[hoppyscotty]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/n...ange-Rover-ablaze-Luton-airport-car-park.html
range rover sport perhaps

they do phev versions 38kw battery I don't have the battery specs for the mhev. some versions i.e. the signature one can do 180mph and 0-60 in 3.6

And the location of the battery in the hybrid version of those cars are....under the front passenger seat...correlates nicely with the position of the fire in the images. The fire certainly doesn't look like its diesel burning...even if you could get diesel to burn (quite hard to get diesel to burn in open air), where is the thick black smoke?

Ultimately it doesn't matter. I don't care if there are 'issues' with EV's...all cars over time have had issues (especially with Range Rovers both hybrid and ICE versions), and continue to do so, with recalls left right and centre. EV's will be exactly the same. If there is a problem with EV and hybrid batteries, and there certainly seems that there is, then it needs to be acknowledged and fixed ASAP and not swept under the carpet, as it's clearly a safety issue and needs to be faced and fixed before people die, especially given the rate these things are being pushed onto us. And with several stories of EV's spontaneously combusting while charging and setting homes on fire it is amazing nobody has been killed yet.

It seems there is some level of suppression of news around EV fires...which, as a driver of an EV myself, who charges my car overnight while me and my family are sleeping, is quite concerning. You don't mess with issues like this...you face them head on and be open and transparent about it and fix them ASAP. However with the aggressive political push for EV's leading the science and engineering before the products are understood and matured, the potential cost to address all those cars already out there, either by retrofit of new batteries (£20k per car???) or even if a repair/modification is required the cost is huge and alot of financial and political pressure to downplay the problem.

 

[Benfleet Brewery]

I very much doubt there’s any suppression of news around EV fires. The media love a story like this. If it was happening we’d all know about it, guaranteed.

 

[JockyBrewer]

Tail lights look like an older Range Rover, one that wouldn't have a hybrid battery.

 

[Alastair70]

@hoppyscotty There isn’t an issue with EV battery fires, I’ve posted a more detailed and evidenced response earlier on the thread if you want to read back through. (In work so can’t trawl back through myself)

However, there is an issue with this, and other misinformation, being propagated by the anti-EV lobby.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I very much doubt there’s any suppression of news around EV fires. The media love a story like this. If it was happening we’d all know about it, guaranteed.

I couldn't agree more.

 

[dad_of_jon]

This guy is a qualified engineer and journalist....



You also get some life saving tips at the end if you do find yourself in the vicinity of a burning car.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

This guy is a qualified engineer and journalist....

He is supposed to be a car expert i stopped when he said he didn't know what model of Range rover it was.

I cannot listen to him for half an hour what was his view on the fire.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I decided to watch it all and he may be right it may be a diesel hybrid but some of the stuff he said could easily be explained if it were a non hybrid.

He points out that diesel doesn't "explode" like petrol and that you can put a match out in diesel which i assume we all know, he said there isn't enough black smoke for it to be diesel fire but as i showed in my earlier video a fire started in the car can quickly engulf it and spread it doesn't need to be the fuel on fire to cause the intense fire, he said it could have been the DPF that caused it which i had never thought of but is a valid point, at the end of the day all we can do is wait for the investigation to finish and *i am sure we will be told the truth.

*He is not the only expert who will have watched this and drawn the conclusion it could have been started by the battery so i ask myself why this has not been on the front page of every paper and on every news station on the radio, the answer of course is because no one knows for sure not because its a cover up by the government!

 

[Bernie]

Diesel ICE vehicles do burn. Famously, the worst vehicle fires have been on HGVs in the tunnels through the Alps when many people died, trapped by the intense heat and smoke. Now, there are escape tunnels, vehicles are only allowed through keeping 200 metre distances and lorries are checked for overheating before they are allowed through.
Once I was in a queue on a motorway on a longish but not severe climb waiting for an HGV to burn itself out. There's not much that can be done once the fire is going but to get everyone safe, stop it spreading. Any attempt to put out the fire would have been pointless and dangerous. All that was left was a husk when I drove past it.
Diesel does burn if it gets hot enough above the flash point. It's the vapours of combustible liquids that burn, so petrol will burn at a lower temperature than diesel but both will burn.

Fuel	Flash point	Autoignition temperature
Gasoline (petrol)	−43 °C	280 °C
Diesel (2-D)	>52 °C	210 °C

So, when the Daily Mail scientists claim that diesel puts out a lighted match, would they do that with the diesel poured on an engine block just after a drive?
Sorry DM readers it's not just EVs that catch fire.

 

[dad_of_jon]

I decided to watch it all and he may be right it may be a diesel hybrid but some of the stuff he said could easily be explained if it were a non hybrid.

He points out that diesel doesn't "explode" like petrol and that you can put a match out in diesel which i assume we all know, he said there isn't enough black smoke for it to be diesel fire but as i showed in my earlier video a fire started in the car can quickly engulf it and spread it doesn't need to be the fuel on fire to cause the intense fire, he said it could have been the DPF that caused it which i had never thought of but is a valid point, at the end of the day all we can do is wait for the investigation to finish and *i am sure we will be told the truth.

*He is not the only expert who will have watched this and drawn the conclusion it could have been started by the battery so i ask myself why this has not been on the front page of every paper and on every news station on the radio, the answer of course is because no one knows for sure not because its a cover up by the government!

I was amazed how JLR's seem prone to catching fire but I didn't know you can put a match out in diesel. - makes sense now I think about it. As the science is explained.

I also found it interesting that the vehicles lights were on as it burnt. It is possible that the 12V battery started the fire but the circuit was not damaged enough to kill anything using 12V

He's very much a car safety champion. e.g. - If your car dies in the middle of the outback , so could you.
But he also banged on about the farce of crash testing, that some cars performed so bad they shouldn't be allowed to be sold. This was a contributing factor to the mini metro being withdrawn.

With regards to the hybrid or not question, It needs more heat to set diesel on fire which means whatever the cause of the fire you have a bit more time to escape a diesel car on fire than petrol?

https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/tesla-dealership-fire-norwell-hazmat/
appears, whatever, appears.

This sort of language is the opposite of air crash investigations. Until lots of people die in a mass accident caused by a vehicle fire there won't be the correct resources or legislation dedicated to stopping a repeat.

"A recent study by US insurer, AutoinsuranceEZ found that hybrid cars had the worst fire record, while EVs were the least likely type of car to catch fire. Hybrid cars had 3474.5 fires per 100,000 sale; petrol cars had 1,529.9 fires per 100,000 sales and EVs had just 25.1 fires per 100,000 sales.19 Jun 2023"

When you think about this a hybrid has two energy storage systems in addition to 12V battery wheras an EV or a pure ICE has one.

 

[Justin Dean]

..

It could be argued you need to be rich to own and run an ICE vehicle!

To buy

 

[Chippy_Tea]

There is still a difference in price (see Corsa examples below) between petrol and electric but if you intend to keep the car and can charge at home you will soon break even, cheap charging at home, cheaper to service and no charge for entering clean air zones, i am sure there will be more i haven't thought of.

This quote is from the Carwow site for two similar size cars -

The total ownership costs over a 3-year period including fuel/electricity, leasing costs, servicing and ULEZ charges for the Seat are an estimated £18,410 while the MG5 Estate is £13,631. That’s £4,779 saved in total, or £132,75 each month if you pick the MG.

 

[MashBag]

Our local Waitrose recently converted 8 parking bays into 2 transformer units and 6 bays with electric charging points.

Whats a transformer unit?

They are either empty (most of the time) or occasionally a 4x4 is parked in them.

There are electric 4x4, it not necessarily a joker leaving tow rope hanging out the back

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Whats a transformer unit?

I assume he means these -

 

[Agentgonzo]

Whats a transformer unit

Yes, what chippy said above

There are electric 4x4, it not necessarily a joker leaving tow rope hanging out the back

Nope. These were big gas guzzlers