Elections.

[Polcho]

Is it to do with the personalities, the fact that a lot of them can’t really identify with the traditional identity or the political idea of Labour just isn’t appealing to the modern Britain?

 

[clib]

And by Labour, I mean the current leadership and Party. Not a lot. You need to win elections and be in power to be able to do anything.

Er. They haven't fought a general election yet!

 

[fiddlerjon]

I don’t think this idea of where a person is educated is valid either. TB was educated at Oxford, yet he managed to form 3 majority governments as a Labour leader

Yes, I agree with you: which is why TB couldn’t claim to belong to the Working Class, the group that Labour was formed to empower in the first place. Likewise all the others. Which underscores the point made by Mahmoud in that that party represents the London bourgeoisie and the Twitterati, not actual real people who go out and earn their living, raise families in the real world outside Westminster. The Labour Party has strayed from its roots and has now built a new power base that is out of step with the electorate generally. Which is why they lost. People see through the champagne socialists who are always keen to tell them to do as they say rather than as they themselves do. The Conservatives, on the other hand, don’t make the same claims nor do they pretend that they are the Working Class.

 

[fiddlerjon]

Unlike John macDonnell, for example, I don’t own a second home. I don’t have the upbringing nor the million pound home of Corbyn. Or Starmer. These people do not represent me living in my terraced house in NW England. They like to claim that they do. But they don’t.

 

[johncrobinson]

I think a NEW definition of working class could be:> " Graft as hard as you like and you will still be skint."

And for the upper classes:> " Let your money do the working"
Ad-hominum to the old yellow pages ads.

 

[Brew_DD2]

Unlike John macDonnell, for example, I don’t own a second home. I don’t have the upbringing nor the million pound home of Corbyn. Or Starmer. These people do not represent me living in my terraced house in NW England. They like to claim that they do. But they don’t.

Who does?

 

[fiddlerjon]

They represent people who think it’s right to traduce normal, sensible people who believe in two sexes - male and female- who think it’s ok to clamp down on people’ freedom of speech and expression, and who think it’s ok to subvert the democratic will of the People. As I said, they represent the lunatic fringe because they’ve lost the trust of the majority and tried to cling onto power via the metropolitan proletariat, which has backfired spectacularly. So the way forward, in my opinion, is to resurrect as a moderate, centre social Democratic Party which needs to appeal to as broad a mass of the electorate as possible. . Which means losing all this woke nonsense and stopping the antiBritishness that most people find repugnant and to embrace our country and culture, warts and all. Otherwise, it’s curtains for them. And us. We need a functional, realistic Opposition that looks like it could actually be a government-in-waiting. This lot are not that, and the previous lot were never ever going to be entrusted with the reins of power by the common folk. Ever.

 

[fiddlerjon]

I think a NEW definition of working class could be:> " Graft as hard as you like and you will still be skint."

And for the upper classes:> " Let your money do the working"
Ad-hominum to the old yellow pages ads.

Hahaha the status quo, in other words.

 

[clib]

Yes, I agree with you: which is why TB couldn’t claim to belong to the Working Class, the group that Labour was formed to empower in the first place. Likewise all the others. Which underscores the point made by Mahmoud in that that party represents the London bourgeoisie and the Twitterati, not actual real people who go out and earn their living, raise families in the real world outside Westminster. The Labour Party has strayed from its roots and has now built a new power base that is out of step with the electorate generally. Which is why they lost. People see through the champagne socialists who are always keen to tell them to do as they say rather than as they themselves do. The Conservatives, on the other hand, don’t make the same claims nor do they pretend that they are the Working Class.

The Tory power base us much much more out of step with the electorate generally. Obviously. So I think you are just being irrational tbh.

 

[fiddlerjon]

Er. They haven't fought a general election yet!

They’ve just lost Hartlepool and 206 councillors, the Blues have GAINED 264 as of now. They don’t need to bother fighting a general election. They’re finished. They’ve not won the last four general election in a row, and continue to decline, clib. The London election is going to be very close.

 

[fiddlerjon]

The Tory power base us much much more out of step with the electorate generally. Obviously. So I think you are just being irrational tbh.

That’s not what the last Four elections and Thursday showed. Insulting my intelligence won’t change the facts, Clib.

 

[Polcho]

They represent people who think it’s right to traduce normal, sensible people who believe in two sexes - male and female- who think it’s ok to clamp down on people’ freedom of speech and expression, and who think it’s ok to subvert the democratic will of the People. As I said, they represent the lunatic fringe because they’ve lost the trust of the majority and tried to cling onto power via the metropolitan proletariat, which has backfired spectacularly. So the way forward, in my opinion, is to resurrect as a moderate, centre social Democratic Party which needs to appeal to as broad a mass of the electorate as possible. . Which means losing all this woke nonsense and stopping the antiBritishness that most people find repugnant and to embrace our country and culture, warts and all. Otherwise, it’s curtains for them. And us. We need a functional, realistic Opposition that looks like it could actually be a government-in-waiting. This lot are not that, and the previous lot were never ever going to be entrusted with the reins of power by the common folk. Ever.

Tony Blair was essentially a centrist, it’s how he got in and stayed in. Which possibly demonstrates that the general public are just happy with a middle of the road sort of party

 

[fiddlerjon]

Tony Blair was essentially a centrist, it’s how he got in and stayed in. Which possibly demonstrates that the general public are just happy with a middle of the road sort of party

Exactly. We don’t like extremes. We want stability, safety and liberty.

 

[clib]

That’s not what the last Four elections and Thursday showed. Insulting my intelligence won’t change the facts, Clib.

I'm not insulting your intelligence, 8m saying that post was irrational. Don't make false accusations.

 

[fiddlerjon]

Exactly. We don’t like extremes. We want stability, safety and liberty.

Maybe I should run for parliament?

 

[fiddlerjon]

I'm not insulting your intelligence, 8m saying that post was irrational. Don't make false accusations.

In what way was it irrational?

 

[fiddlerjon]

In what way was it irrational?

 

[fiddlerjon]

Even the left press agrees with me, my friend.

 

[clib]

They’ve just lost Hartlepool and 206 councillors, the Blues have GAINED 264 as of now. They don’t need to bother fighting a general election. They’re finished. They’ve not won the last four general election in a row, and continue to decline, clib. The London election is going to be very close.

But accused them of doing nothing and they've only had a short period of leadership and haven't fought a general ejection yet. They are a very long way from winning an election, granted. But the same was true of the conservatives for a while. I wouldn't leave Boris in charge of my kids, never mind the country, personally. Complete shyster.

 

[fiddlerjon]

That’s not what the country thinks, though.