Priming sugar 50g

[earthwormgaz]

Hi,

My brew books always say to prime with 50g of sugar for a 6 gallon batch ready for bottling. However, I seem to remember I did this, and most of the bottles from a batch blew up with foam when I opened them. So I've backed off to 20-30 of sugar, and my beer is usually a little more flat than I'd like now. I am starting to think the 50g grenades were a one off, and I'm being chicken now not putting that much in.

How much does everyone on here use? Any thoughts about priming for bottling?

 

[Rwilts]

I use 150g per 23 litres as a general rule. There are sugar calculator s ( brewfather also tells you how much to use based on volume and style, sure other software will also do this)

 

[pilgrimhudd]

Think the bottle grenade was a one off... I usually use 70-80g in a bitter or a stout, 80-100g in a pale and up to 120g in a saison for 19-20l. I once accidentally used 250g in a mild, I did go around releasing the pressure every so often.

The other thing is the make of bottle, I brewed a Dubbel recently which was intentionally fizzy and unfortunately 3 of my Paulaner bottles popped, which is a shame as I like those bottles but on inspection are a lot thinner.

 

[foxy]

Hi,

My brew books always say to prime with 50g of sugar for a 6 gallon batch ready for bottling. However, I seem to remember I did this, and most of the bottles from a batch blew up with foam when I opened them. So I've backed off to 20-30 of sugar, and my beer is usually a little more flat than I'd like now. I am starting to think the 50g grenades were a one off, and I'm being chicken now not putting that much in.

How much does everyone on here use? Any thoughts about priming for bottling?

It depends on the temperature of your beer, the amount of beer to be primed and the level of carbonation you want. The colder the beer is the more dissolved CO2 still in suspension.
I bottle after cold crashing and use 10g of sugar for 21 litres of beer to get my preferred carbonation level. As long as you have given the beer ample time to settle in the fermenter (don't bottle too early) use this calculator or Brewers Friend they are both the same.
https://www.lallemandbrewing.com/en/united-states/bottle-conditioning-calculator/

 

[Agentgonzo]

The difference between 20-30g and 50g in a 6 gallon batch shouldn't be the difference between too flat and gushers.
I have a suspicion something else is going on - either you "50g batches" hadn't finished fermenting and there was residual sugar, or there was a wild yeast infection etc. my suspicion is the former.

Are you sure it definitely finished fermenting by the time you bottled it?

 

[MashBag]

I am with you all the way @Agentgonzo

5g in 6gallon is low imo. I use 5g per litre (pale ale) and still think that's low enough, not to be gassy.

 

[earthwormgaz]

I think I will use more in my next one then, people are using quite a lot more than 50g above! That gusher must have had some other issue.

Colder beer can hold more CO2, wouldn't have thought of that, that's interesting!

 

[foxy]

I think I will use more in my next one then, people are using quite a lot more than 50g above! That gusher must have had some other issue.

Colder beer can hold more CO2, wouldn't have thought of that, that's interesting!

When writers give the dosage of sugar for a brew they are working on ambient temperature. In a fermenter which may be half or two-thirds full the CO2 that was being released stops being released when it reaches equilibrium with atmospheric pressure.
So cold crashing to drop the yeast also causes the CO2 above the beer to be drawn back in, the colder you take the beer the more CO2 dissolves back into the beer.

 

[earthwormgaz]

Does this mean cold crashing makes the beer more fizzy? I'd not actually put it out yet. Be interesting to see if its more fizzy now its just gone in the garage.

 

[Twostage]

Does this mean cold crashing makes the beer more fizzy? I'd not actually put it out yet. Be interesting to see if its more fizzy now its just gone in the garage.

The colder the liquid, the more CO2 (and other gases) it can absorb which is why you force carbonate cold beer.

Apparently there is debate as to whether the temperature of the beer when you add sugar is relevant. To quote brewersfriend :-

The beer you are about to package already contains some CO2 since it is a naturally occurring byproduct of fermentation. The amount is temperature dependent. The temperature to enter is usually the fermentation temperature of the beer, but might also be the current temperature of the beer. If the fermentation temperature and the current beer temperature are the same life is simple.

However, if the beer was cold crashed, or put through a diacetyl rest, or the temperature changed for some other reason... you will need to use your judgment to decide which temperature is most representative. During cold crashing, some of the CO2 in the head space will go back into the beer. If you cold crashed for a very long time this may represent a significant increase in dissolved CO2. There is a lot of online debate about this and the internet is thin on concrete answers backed by research. We are open to improving the calculator so please let us know of any sources that clarify this point.

Personally I've never made any adjustments to my sugar additions for cold crashed beer.

 

[foxy]

The colder the liquid, the more CO2 (and other gases) it can absorb which is why you force carbonate cold beer.

Apparently there is debate as to whether the temperature of the beer when you add sugar is relevant. To quote brewersfriend :-

The beer you are about to package already contains some CO2 since it is a naturally occurring byproduct of fermentation. The amount is temperature dependent. The temperature to enter is usually the fermentation temperature of the beer, but might also be the current temperature of the beer. If the fermentation temperature and the current beer temperature are the same life is simple.

However, if the beer was cold crashed, or put through a diacetyl rest, or the temperature changed for some other reason... you will need to use your judgment to decide which temperature is most representative. During cold crashing, some of the CO2 in the head space will go back into the beer. If you cold crashed for a very long time this may represent a significant increase in dissolved CO2. There is a lot of online debate about this and the internet is thin on concrete answers backed by research. We are open to improving the calculator so please let us know of any sources that clarify this point.

Update 7/2013 - The calculator now displays the volumes of dissolved CO2 in the beer prior to adding priming sugar. As the beer was fermenting it naturally retained some CO2. The amount of dissolved CO2 is temperature dependent.

Don't Over Prime!

The amount of sugar the calculator tells you to add will take the beer from the current level of CO2 to the desired level.

When bottling I typically do 3.5 ounces of corn sugar (dextrose) by weight for 5 gallons. This yields about 2.1 volumes of carbonation, which is plenty. Over carbonation leads to a lot of problems, like swollen caps, exploding bottles, and a really annoying time trying to pour foamy beer. See our article on home brew bottle bombs.

Notes on Sugars: Corn sugar and dextrose are the same thing. Dextrose is the most popular priming sugar. Table sugar can also be used, and it is assumed that corn sugar is 91% sugar, while table sugar is 100% sugar. Dry Malt Extract (DME) is another option. This calculator uses 68% attenuation for DME.

Measuring Priming Sugar: We recommend measuring priming sugar by weight. The values this calculator reports are by weight, not by volume. Weight is the most reliable method. Use the same scale you use for hop additions.

Other sources will say add X cups of sugar. The problem we have with this is, there could be air pockets inside the scoop, making it hard to tell just how much is in there. Yeah it will get you close most of the time, but it is not reliable or repeatable in comparison with measuring by weight. An under primed batch of beer is a real bummer, don't let a measuring cup be the cause.

You left out Kai's update

 

[Twostage]

Update 7/2013 - The calculator now displays the volumes of dissolved CO2 in the beer prior to adding priming sugar. As the beer was fermenting it naturally retained some CO2. The amount of dissolved CO2 is temperature dependent.

Don't Over Prime!

The amount of sugar the calculator tells you to add will take the beer from the current level of CO2 to the desired level.

When bottling I typically do 3.5 ounces of corn sugar (dextrose) by weight for 5 gallons. This yields about 2.1 volumes of carbonation, which is plenty. Over carbonation leads to a lot of problems, like swollen caps, exploding bottles, and a really annoying time trying to pour foamy beer. See our article on home brew bottle bombs.

Notes on Sugars: Corn sugar and dextrose are the same thing. Dextrose is the most popular priming sugar. Table sugar can also be used, and it is assumed that corn sugar is 91% sugar, while table sugar is 100% sugar. Dry Malt Extract (DME) is another option. This calculator uses 68% attenuation for DME.

Measuring Priming Sugar: We recommend measuring priming sugar by weight. The values this calculator reports are by weight, not by volume. Weight is the most reliable method. Use the same scale you use for hop additions.

Other sources will say add X cups of sugar. The problem we have with this is, there could be air pockets inside the scoop, making it hard to tell just how much is in there. Yeah it will get you close most of the time, but it is not reliable or repeatable in comparison with measuring by weight. An under primed batch of beer is a real bummer, don't let a measuring cup be the cause.

You left out Kai's update

Didn't see the update, maybe they should remove the none-updated bit?

I get the theory (fact) that cold liquids can absorb (or is it adsorb, not sure) and hold more gas. I also get that if you ferment under pressure then the amount of CO2 in the beer will be related to the wort temp and if you cold crash under pressure then more CO2 will be absorbed. What I can't get is that if you ferment at 20c so the beer will contain a certain amount of CO2 and you cold crash it in an open vessel then somehow it will now have more CO2 in it. I don't understand it, I'll have to research it.

I suppose the main thing that is nagging me is experience. In my last two brews I cold crashed one but not the other and used the same amount of priming sugar in both and they are both carbonated the same.

 

[Agentgonzo]

What I can't get is that if you ferment at 20c so the beer will contain a certain amount of CO2 and you cold crash it in an open vessel then somehow it will now have more CO2 in it.

It won't.

 

[foxy]

I get the theory (fact) that cold liquids can absorb (or is it adsorb, not sure) and hold more gas. I also get that if you ferment under pressure then the amount of CO2 in the beer will be related to the wort temp and if you cold crash under pressure then more CO2 will be absorbed. What I can't get is that if you ferment at 20c so the beer will contain a certain amount of CO2 and you cold crash it in an open vessel then somehow it will now have more CO2 in it. I don't understand it, I'll have to research it.

I suppose the main thing that is nagging me is experience. In my last two brews I cold crashed one but not the other and used the same amount of priming sugar in both and they are both carbonated the same.

Agentgonzo is right, it won't carbonate as the open vessel has no CO2 to dissolve into the beer.
The reason for cold crashing is to quickly drop all the debris in the fermenter, the colder it is the quicker it clears leaving you with a bright beer to bottle or keg. Why you got the same carbonation from both I have no idea unless the open vessel is one of the two you speak of.

 

[Agentgonzo]

I get the theory (fact) that cold liquids can absorb (or is it adsorb, not sure) and hold more gas

It's "absorb" in this case

https://www.cotes.com/blog/inside-chemistry-absorption-vs-adsorption

 

[Twostage]

Agentgonzo is right, it won't carbonate as the open vessel has no CO2 to dissolve into the beer.
The reason for cold crashing is to quickly drop all the debris in the fermenter, the colder it is the quicker it clears leaving you with a bright beer to bottle or keg. Why you got the same carbonation from both I have no idea unless the open vessel is one of the two you speak of.

LOL - I know what cold crashing is about ( I must be coming across as a newbie ).

I think a light has come on from re-reading this bit :-

During cold crashing, some of the CO2 in the head space will go back into the beer. If you cold crashed for a very long time this may represent a significant increase in dissolved CO2.

As there will be a layer of CO2 sitting on top of the wort atmospheric pressure will 'push' some of it back into the beer. How much depends on what they classify as 'very long time' and I suppose how much head space there is. Mine will be crashed for a few days so not very long. It would be good to have numbers on this .

(I'd already got that if you ferment at low temps (lager for example) there will be more dissolved CO2).

 

[foxy]

As there will be a layer of CO2 sitting on top of the wort atmospheric pressure will 'push' some of it back into the beer. How much depends on what they classify as 'very long time' and I suppose how much head space there is. Mine will be crashed for a few days so not very long. It would be good to have numbers on this .

(I'd already got that if you ferment at low temps (lager for example) there will be more dissolved CO2).

Pro brewing tanks are designed to stand a pressure of one bar, not just for top pressure but vacuum. Towards the end of fermentation a top pressure of one bar is applied and the wort is slowly cooled to 1C or 0C when the pressure reaches 0.7 bar then they know how much CO2 has dissolved into the wort. On a homebrew scale we cold crash for the same reason to drop everything out and to give us the natural CO2 into our beer finishing off with the priming and conditioning.
Charlie Bamforth explains in a podcast the lower the better -1C for 2 days clears a beer far more effectively than a beer left at 1C for 2 weeks, and slightly more dissolved CO2.

 

[earthwormgaz]

I'm coming back to this thread yonks later, as I've read about water treatment, and I defo saw some notes saying there are things in some water profiles that CO2 can bind to, and then cause bottle gushers?

I think this might be what happened to me so many times. I've treated my water, added maybe 30g of priming sugar to the whole batch as I'm scared of more gushers ... the beer is too flat now. Only slight bit of fizz!

Could this have been the issue all along?

 

[Clint]

Hmmm.maybe but I'd say bottle gushers are either vastly OVER priming or infection.

 

[RichardM]

As there will be a layer of CO2 sitting on top of the wort atmospheric pressure will 'push' some of it back into the beer.

Unless you are pressure fermenting and purged all the air at the start of fermentation there won't because layer of CO2. There will because mixture of CO2 and air.
This is the explanation given by another a forum user, I forget who.

CO2 and air are gaseous fluids. They behave like liquid fluids such as water and milk when mixed.
Water and milk are different densities but if you poured milk in to water you won't get a layer of milk and a layer of water, you'll get a mixture of the two. It's the same with CO2 and air.