Elections.

[crescent city Mike]

This seems to be the age-old dilemma . . . a matter of perspective. I found this little story some time back. It's certainly worth the read.

Bar Stool Economics

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.

The fifth would pay $1.

The sixth would pay $3.

The seventh would pay $7.

The eighth would pay $12.

The ninth would pay $18.

The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that's what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. 'Since you are all such good customers’, he said, 'I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20.' Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But, what about the other six men, the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share?' They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

And so:

The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).

The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33% savings).

The seventh now paid $5 instead of $7 (28% savings) .

The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).

The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).

The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).



Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.

'I only got a dollar out of the $20,' declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man, ‘but he got $10!' 'Yeah, that's right,' exclaimed the fifth man. 'I only saved a dollar, too. It's unfair that he got ten times more than I!' 'That's true!!' shouted the seventh man. 'Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!'

'Wait a minute,' yelled the first four men in unison. 'We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!'

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

For those who understand, no explanation is needed. For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible.

David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D.

Professor of Economics

University of Georgia

 

[Cwrw666]

The business was fine I had just won another contract when my wife told me she was pregnant and as she was a high flier in her work and I love being a father, I decided that I would be the one who looked after them, took them to nursery and picked them up and all the wonderful things that you get from being a parent.

Good for you. I did much the same.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

You shouldn't have to justify your actions to a certain windup merchant. Perhaps I'll get told off again for that suggestion.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

You shouldn't have to justify your actions to a certain windup merchant. Perhaps I'll get told off again for that suggestion.

Have you ever heard the old saying about a pot and kettle?

 

[Lesinge]

This seems to be the age-old dilemma . . . a matter of perspective. I found this little story some time back. It's certainly worth the read.

Bar Stool Economics

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.

The fifth would pay $1.

The sixth would pay $3.

The seventh would pay $7.

The eighth would pay $12.

The ninth would pay $18.

The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that's what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. 'Since you are all such good customers’, he said, 'I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20.' Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But, what about the other six men, the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share?' They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

And so:

The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).

The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33% savings).

The seventh now paid $5 instead of $7 (28% savings) .

The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).

The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).

The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).



Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.

'I only got a dollar out of the $20,' declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man, ‘but he got $10!' 'Yeah, that's right,' exclaimed the fifth man. 'I only saved a dollar, too. It's unfair that he got ten times more than I!' 'That's true!!' shouted the seventh man. 'Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!'

'Wait a minute,' yelled the first four men in unison. 'We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!'

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

For those who understand, no explanation is needed. For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible.

David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D.

Professor of Economics

University of Georgia

it is all a matter of balance. If the tenth man was given the brewery by his parents, spent all day gambling people's livlihoods on the futures market, had more money than he could spend but still tried to get the other people to work on gig economy wages, then that would be unfair wouldn't it? However, we need the tax rates to be in the sweet spot, with the most tax income coming in but also the feeling that if you work hard and create a business that benefits other people through work you should reap the benefits of doing so - as long as you also recognise that if you go for a purely capitalist system you may have to live behind barbed wire to stop the hungry stealing what you hoard.

 

[Lesinge]

This video is a classic example of how statistics can be manipulated in order to promote an agenda.

A better question would of been:>What percentage of their wealth do the super rich pay in taxes as compared to the average citizen.

Thats why tax havens exist.!!

Agree. The funny thing is that if we take a normal day and looked at how much everything costs, the super rich will pay the same for things as the poor pay. So if a pint of milk is 70p that will be the same for someone of minimum wage as it would be for someone with 30 billion in the bank. That is why some of the very rich can't think of anything more to spend their money on so buy drinks with gold in them or nail varnish with diamonds. I went to the Czech Republic when it had just emerged from Communist rule and whilst everything was really cheap for me, everything was expensive for them - the same when I was in Yugoslavia. I have nothing against people making money but when you find out that porche driving idiots are gambling on rice futures which drive up prices for people who survive on a couple of bowls of rice a day it is criminal.

 

[Lesinge]

On the subject of parenthood and work I was thinking about this the other day. My Father died when he was 80 and during all the time I knew him we must have talked about his work twice. The same is true of my kids, who know I work but don't know or care anything about it. What I remembered about my Dad growing up was the times he played with us, or made us laugh or took us on holiday or scared us with his stories. My kids will remember me for "fright night", stories, sword fights, "horsey" (where I am a horse and try and throw them off me) and hopefully the holidays we have had together. When I grew up my Dad and I would go to see live sports, drink, talk about beer and have a laugh. If you work all the hours god sends and never see your kids or are too tired to do anything when you get home (and for a lot of people that sadly is the reality), I personnally feel that both you and they will miss out.Yep you might leave them loads of money but will that make up for your absence in their lives? As I said, I recognise that many people don't have the choice but if you are lucky like I have been to be able to spend time with them it is a great reward.

 

[Binkei Huckaback]

'The winter of discontent' is in the past is because of Maggie, you have her to thank for taking the power off an unelected body of missfits who would love to see a socialist country. The only ones it would work for are the ones in power. All the sheep would remain that, just sheep following union leaders.

Who was unelected? Certainly union officers are elected on a regular basis. And strike action ot any other kind of action. Do you realise that unions are special interest groups, act not just for their memebers, but for all employees and for that matter society in general, unlike the special interest groups who lobby government on behalf of big business? Or when companies such as JCB, Wetherspoons or the vile Aaron Banks donate large sums of money to parties. That's not through wanting a better society, but because they expect something back. Big business is a massive recipient of state aid through the payment of state benefits to people who survive on low wages topped up by the state.

Obviously your business. Running a business doesn't stop or interfere with ones family life, if that was the case where would all the businesses be if everyone took the same view as you. Close them down because of family, give me a break.
Obviously Blair cares about his kids, just pointing out how privileged he is, whith his Dad making a nice little nest egg from the labour voters.

I think you'll find Blair made more money from big business than he ever did from Labour voters.

Finally, I'm reporting your post. How dare you question someone's decision to spend more time with their family. There's a whiff of something nasty about it.

 

[foxy]

Who was unelected? Certainly union officers are elected on a regular basis. And strike action ot any other kind of action. Do you realise that unions are special interest groups, act not just for their memebers, but for all employees and for that matter society in general, unlike the special interest groups who lobby government on behalf of big business? Or when companies such as JCB, Wetherspoons or the vile Aaron Banks donate large sums of money to parties. That's not through wanting a better society, but because they expect something back. Big business is a massive recipient of state aid through the payment of state benefits to people who survive on low wages topped up by the state.



I think you'll find Blair made more money from big business than he ever did from Labour voters.

Finally, I'm reporting your post. How dare you question someone's decision to spend more time with their family. There's a whiff of something nasty about it.

I don't give a rats arse, I didn't question whether a man can give time to his family. What I did question was why can't he give time to his family and run his own business? Obviously because he didn't know how to run a business. My kids went to a private school and I was running my business. DELEGATE is what he should have been doing. I don't believe a word he says. Sorry.

 

[Justin Dean]

Unconcious bias. It is a current topic that encompasses alot of this dicussion and once understood then alot of this discussion disappears