Elections.

[Cheshire Cat]

Well as has been said a few times now the main point wasn't about shortening his countries name as explained in post #182 but having said that would you have done the same had he been from Pakistan?

.

That is disgraceful of course not how could you suggest that, I thought better of you than to suggest that to make your point. An apology should be in order but it won't.

 

[foxy]

You are right it doesn't work - the things labour have brought in or enhanced have been a massive failure: Council housing, the NHS (opposed by the Tories), State Pensions, the minimum wage all things that nobody likes and we all want rid of.

You are living on past glories, think more of the economy especially now. I see you never mentioned 'The winter of discontent' or Tony Blair how he has made a fortune pretending to be a socialist.

 

[Binkei Huckaback]

You are living on past glories

Yes, but I think many people are, unlike you, still glad to have them even if they have suffered from decades of underinvestment and at least parts of them being sold off.

 

[Lesinge]

You are living on past glories, think more of the economy especially now. I see you never mentioned 'The winter of discontent' or Tony Blair how he has made a fortune pretending to be a socialist.

The winter of discontent? I know the Tories live in the past (usually feudal England) but you are talking about a time when the only homebrew you could make was from cans in Boots the chemist! Tony Blair was one of the most successful politicians this country has ever seen and unlike Thatcher wasn't pushed out by their own party.

 

[Lesinge]

Yes, but I think many people are, unlike you, still glad to have them even if they have suffered from decades of underinvestment and at least parts of them being sold off.

Look at East Coast Rail - lost money to its private owners whilst still paying dividends to its rich shareholders and running a shocking service. Put under national control, made money and improved the service only for the Tories to sell it cheaply off to more of its mates. To me they are nothing but a bunch of pirates.

 

[ChrisR73]

My approach would be to let a labour government in and see how bad they perform. And it would be bad. Socialism doesn't work. if you think it does you are a dreamer.

You're clearly not paying attention - capitalism definitely doesn't work and America is a great example of this.
Amazon are now typifying everything that is wrong with big businesses, as the oil companies have for decades by avoiding taxes on a borderline criminal basis.
Wanting to live in a fairer society doesn't make you a dreamer, it makes you an ethical person - and greed is the biggest barrier to stop this working.

 

[foxy]

You're clearly not paying attention - capitalism definitely doesn't work and America is a great example of this.
Amazon are now typifying everything that is wrong with big businesses, as the oil companies have for decades by avoiding taxes on a borderline criminal basis.
Wanting to live in a fairer society doesn't make you a dreamer, it makes you an ethical person - and greed is the biggest barrier to stop this working.

You are more than likely working for a capitalist. Where does the money come from to fund business? Socialism has been tried and failed badly. If you want to get ahead, stop working for the capitalists and become one yourself. It's the only way

 

[foxy]

The winter of discontent? I know the Tories live in the past (usually feudal England) but you are talking about a time when the only homebrew you could make was from cans in Boots the chemist! Tony Blair was one of the most successful politicians this country has ever seen and unlike Thatcher wasn't pushed out by their own party.

Tony Blairs idol was Thatcher.

 

[foxy]

Yes, but I think many people are, unlike you, still glad to have them even if they have suffered from decades of underinvestment and at least parts of them being sold off.

The best I can wish for is that you once again fall under a socialist government, not a pretend one which Blair ran and made an absolute fortune, thanks to those who voted for him. But a Corbyn government that will change the way you think.

 

[Lesinge]

The best I can wish for is that you once again fall under a socialist government, not a pretend one which Blair ran and made an absolute fortune, thanks to those who voted for him. But a Corbyn government that will change the way you think.

Corbyn has gone. I am a member of the Labour party and didn't like Corbyn so that is very much a minority section of the movement.

 

[Lesinge]

You are more than likely working for a capitalist. Where does the money come from to fund business? Socialism has been tried and failed badly. If you want to get ahead, stop working for the capitalists and become one yourself. It's the only way

Its not either rampant capatilism like the US or Communism like the Soviet Union - there is a big inbetween where things are run fairly - look at Germany, far more successful than us but operating with workers on the board - not locked out.

 

[johncrobinson]

I used to work for a capitalist,A kind and beneficent man who paid me over 10x the then newly introduced minimum wage.
It was i have to admit awfull to visit home (NE England) and go into a bar knowing i was earning more per month than they did in a year,And those were the fortunate few who actually had work of any description,

 

[the_quick]

Lots of discussions here it posing to extreme ends of political direction. Capitalism vs socialism. None of them exist anywhere as pure form. Usually there is mix of both, the leaning to one side just changes. I would like to see big state - like they are now introducing in The US. Don't like where BJ and conservative are going now, but can't be helped till next GE. I really hope the promises made in the last local election will at least be partially met - but I doubt it - current ministers are just liars that cover each other, without any morals.
What always struck me in these type of discussions, that opposite sides never agree with each other and never give ground - so it can take multiple pages, till people just get bored.
So, has anyone benefited so far from this thread?? Serious question

 

[foxy]

Head down **** up you will be rewarded, start complaining life isn't fair and you are setting out your future life. And it seems all those who vote labour and wish to live in a socialist society believe life will be better. News is it won't. Investments will go elsewhere were the returns are good, why has so much industry left the UK? Start hiding behind the skirts of the unions and pay the consequences. Best thing I ever did was stop making someone else rich and set out on my own. One can only reap what they sow.

 

[Lesinge]

Head down **** up you will be rewarded, start complaining life isn't fair and you are setting out your future life. And it seems all those who vote labour and wish to live in a socialist society believe life will be better. News is it won't. Investments will go elsewhere were the returns are good, why has so much industry left the UK? Start hiding behind the skirts of the unions and pay the consequences. Best thing I ever did was stop making someone else rich and set out on my own. One can only reap what they sow.

Again like Quick say above, you are painting it as either Communist or Capatalist which isn't the case in two of the most successful Industrial countries in the world Germany and Japan. In my case I used to run my own business and very happy I was too and now I work for a large organisation. I pay the higher rate of tax and am happy to do so if that tax is being used to help people and build a better country for all of us to live in. Can a capatalist build their own road, their own hospital, their own power station, run their own police force just for them? Nope, this takes community all working together - i reference Thomas Paine who you can't accuse of being a Socialist of any description. I was very poor as a child and the state helped my Mother and us get through the tough times, did it make me lazy and want to live on benefits? Nope, I used the free education system to learn, to study and to get on and I want to pay back to that same system and for it to be available for others to be able to benefit in the same way that I was able to. When I visit Africa I see school kids walking miles to get to school if their famailies can even afford it so value what we offer here and realise what a great country it is to be born into.

It is funny the people who say that if you help people with benefits you will make them lazy and they will become corrupt are usually helped by their rich parents, go to the best schools and Universities to be helped to meet the right people and make the right connections to enable them to get the best Jobs to make them richer to then benefit their own children. They are also some of the most corrupt people in our lands right now.

As Quick says - there is a middle ground.

 

[foxy]

Again like Quick say above, you are painting it as either Communist or Capatalist which isn't the case in two of the most successful Industrial countries in the world Germany and Japan. In my case I used to run my own business and very happy I was too and now I work for a large organisation. I pay the higher rate of tax and am happy to do so if that tax is being used to help people and build a better country for all of us to live in. Can a capatalist build their own road, their own hospital, their own power station, run their own police force just for them? Nope, this takes community all working together - i reference Thomas Paine who you can't accuse of being a Socialist of any description. I was very poor as a child and the state helped my Mother and us get through the tough times, did it make me lazy and want to live on benefits? Nope, I used the free education system to learn, to study and to get on and I want to pay back to that same system and for it to be available for others to be able to benefit in the same way that I was able to. When I visit Africa I see school kids walking miles to get to school if their famailies can even afford it so value what we offer here and realise what a great country it is to be born into.

It is funny the people who say that if you help people with benefits you will make them lazy and they will become corrupt are usually helped by their rich parents, go to the best schools and Universities to be helped to meet the right people and make the right connections to enable them to get the best Jobs to make them richer to then benefit their own children. They are also some of the most corrupt people in our lands right now.

As Quick says - there is a middle ground.

So your business failed and you took an easy route. Run a succsefull business and your opinions will be different. One will look after the employees who put in and in these days have to hope that those who don't put in leave. It is terribly hard to give someone the Tijuana over here I don't know if it is the same there. As for privaleges don't you think Blairs kids are priveleged? How much was the house worth that his 18 year old son bought?

 

[Binkei Huckaback]

The winter of discontent'?

So what? Now you're living in the past. If you think this will ever happen again, you're an idiot. No government would ever repeal Thatcher's laws stop a repeat. The Tories because they're Tories and Labour because, well, it's really rather conveneient, isn't it?

It really gets my goat that people whine and moan when, say train drivers strike. Do they not realise that the strike is with good reason?

In a previous job, I went out once and threatened twice. We'd always had bonuses instead of proper pay rises, which I hated and which management removed whe the company was put up for sale. They also wanted to rip up our terms and conditions and replace our one month per year of service with stautory minimum of one week. Our union managed to secure what we'd already accrued. Another time, the company wanted to change tge date on which we were paid. That in itself wasn't a problem, but they expected everyone to go six weeks without being paid.

My message to anyone who does moan about unions is don't begrudge people who stand up for their rights, pay, terms and conditions. Instead, join a union or professional association. There's one for most people.

The Tories of this world wind by division and pitting worker against worker. People fought hard to get unions recognised and unions fought hard to get you the rights you enjoy today. Minimum pay, parental leave, maximum working hours, contracts, weekends.

 

[Binkei Huckaback]

So your business failed and you took an easy route.

Who said Lesininge's business failed?

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Chippy Tea said -
Well as has been said a few times now the main point wasn't about shortening his countries name as explained in post #182 but having said that would you have done the same had he been from Pakistan?

That is disgraceful of course not how could you suggest that, I thought better of you than to suggest that to make your point. An apology should be in order but it won't.

I asked you a question you have answered i see no reason why you should get upset by the question and demand an apology, i wasn't calling you a racist or suggesting you would use the word oh wait that's what trolls do isn't it!

To put this into context we used to have a half Chinese girl that worked in our office and when the first Christmas works do came round people were asked where they would like to have a meal a few said they would like to go for a chinky the girl got upset no one knew why later one of her find said even though its common word we used for going for a Chinese takeaway she finds it offensive so don't assume just because you use a certain term for a person from another country that they are not offended by it.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Can we stop the one line troll posts we have removed 3 today and we will continue to do so, if you want to discuss a point that has been made do so do not blatantly troll the thread.