Elections.

[Lesinge]

So your business failed and you took an easy route. Run a succsefull business and your opinions will be different. One will look after the employees who put in and in these days have to hope that those who don't put in leave. It is terribly hard to give someone the Tijuana over here I don't know if it is the same there. As for privaleges don't you think Blairs kids are priveleged? How much was the house worth that his 18 year old son bought?

Firstly whose business failed? I made a decision to be more available for my children when they were born and having stability suited me - a decison made easier because I was given the chance to get educated and so get on - unlike in the US where if you get ill you will be broke for the rest of your life paying back the costs.

Who cares about Blairs kids? - its not a tit for tat discussion - I was pointing out that the biggest moaners about people being given much needed benefits were the ones who had all the benfits of rich parents throughout their lives -like Trump did (self made man my behind). If Blair comes out and says that benefits should be cut then I would include him in that - but he doesnt so I won't.

 

[Brianbrewed]

Firstly whose business failed? I made a decision to be more available for my children when they were born and having stability suited me - a decison made easier because I was given the chance to get educated and so get on - unlike in the US where if you get ill you will be broke for the rest of your life paying back the costs.

Who cares about Blairs kids? - its not a tit for tat discussion - I was pointing out that the biggest moaners about people being given much needed benefits were the ones who had all the benfits of rich parents throughout their lives -like Trump did (self made man my behind). If Blair comes out and says that benefits should be cut then I would include him in that - but he doesnt so I won't.

I would honestly forget about arguing with Foxy. He will just throw in something about socialists been bad. Then advise you to stick with the Tories. As a finale he will make a comparison with some Australian PM you never heard of.
Better off planning where you are going for pints in Dublin.

Speaking of Socialists, famous Scottish Socialist, James Conolly was executed by the British Army in Dublin . You can see where he was shot at Kilmainhaom Gaol in Dublin

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I would honestly forget about arguing with Foxy. He will just throw in something about socialists been bad. Then advise you to stick with the Tories. As a finale he will make a comparison with some Australian PM you never heard of.

Instead of advising member what to do and speculating what Foxy will post next why don't you either post your point of view on what Foxy has posted or give the thread a miss, posting is not compulsory!

 

[Brianbrewed]

Instead of advising member what to do and speculating what Foxy will post next why don't you either post your point of view on the thread topic or give it a miss.

Grand so.
Will do.

I'd imagine the results of the recent elections highlight that the UK electorate are on a bounce since the succesful roll-out of the vaccinations.

Labour have been ham-strung as an opposition during Covid.
It is hard to criticise as an opposition during a national crisis such as a pandemic (the oppostion in ROI are having the same issues).

Also, most centre-left parties across the west have been struggling for the past 20 years as they have lost their traditional voting bases. Indeed most of the success of the right recently has been due to their sucessful stratetgy of peeling of the left's traditional voters while holding on to their conservative bases.

As most Western economies morph from manufacturing economies into service economies the left really struggle to indentify who their electorate are. The lefts adoption of social crusades also has had the effect of alienating their traditional voters.


The result of Brexit has been the fracturing of the traditional ties that holds the UK together. The current PM is very unpopular in both Northern Ireland and Scotland (he didn't campaign north of the border to my knowledge). How this plays out I can't tell, but Sinn Fein is pushing hard for a border poll in both the Republic and Northern Ireland.

Where Labour goes from here?
Hartlepool should not have been such a huge shock. It had one of the largest votes for Brexit. Indeed UKIP did very well last time it campaigned there.
Labour needs to explain what it offers to the British public as well as highlight the Conservatives corruption and criminal incompetetence in its initial response to Covid-19.

My views in general are to the left I would describe myself as a Irish nationalist. My politics and views, like everyone else, has been fueled by personal experiences, my generational milestones and my reading of history.

 

[Lesinge]

I would honestly forget about arguing with Foxy. He will just throw in something about socialists been bad. Then advise you to stick with the Tories. As a finale he will make a comparison with some Australian PM you never heard of.
Better off planning where you are going for pints in Dublin.

Speaking of Socialists, famous Scottish Socialist, James Conolly was executed by the British Army in Dublin . You can see where he was shot at Kilmainhaom Gaol in Dublin

I am looking forward to seeing all the historical sites - my Great Grandfather was imprisoned in PortMcGee in 1921 under Martial Law so that time and the subsequent civil war is very interesting to me. Keep the tips coming!

 

[Brianbrewed]

I am looking forward to seeing all the historical sites - my Great Grandfather was imprisoned in PortMcGee in 1921 under Martial Law so that time and the subsequent civil war is very interesting to me. Keep the tips coming!

Wow, why was he imprisoned???


Collins Barracks in Dublin is one of my fav museums, and they have great new exhibitions on the War of Independence and the Civil War.

GPO also has a great exhibition.

My Granny, God rest her, hid IRA volunteers in her attic during the War of Independence.

My current manager's grandfather was in the Black & Tans (British Paramilitary force during the War of Independence).

 

[Lesinge]

Wow, why was he imprisoned???


Collins Barracks in Dublin is one of my fav museums, and they have great new exhibitions on the War of Independence and the Civil War.

GPO also has a great exhibition.

My Granny, God rest her, hid IRA volunteers in her attic during the War of Independence.

My current manager grandfather was in the Black & Tans (British Paramilitary force during the War of Independence).

No idea yet as to why he was imprisoned as the prison record just states Marshal Law. He died not long afterwards and the rumour was that he was shot by the BnTs but I have searched through the records of shot and executed rebels nad have yet to find him. I need to find his death record. His son, my Grandfather was arrested over here for having IRA guns in his house - story was he had no choice - again I need to see the actual records to be sure.

 

[Brianbrewed]

No idea yet as to why he was imprisoned as the prison record just states Marshal Law. He died not long afterwards and the rumour was that he was shot by the BnTs but I have searched through the records of shot and executed rebels nad have yet to find him. I need to find his death record. His son, my Grandfather was arrested over here for having IRA guns in his house - story was he had no choice - again I need to see the actual records to be sure.

Yeah the War of Independence was quite nasty. Both sides committed attrocities.
The Buring of Cork City centenary has just passed.
The Black and Tans were quite brutal.
Winston Churchill sent them in.

 

[Lesinge]

Yeah the War of Independence was quite nasty. Both sides committed attrocities.
The Buring of Cork City centenary has just passed.
The Black and Tans were quite brutal.
Winston Churchill sent them in.

The world was a very different place back then .. hard to judge them on today's standards. I say that then look at the conflicts in the Middle East an think nothing has changed.

 

[Brianbrewed]

The world was a very different place back then .. hard to judge them on today's standards. I say that then look at the conflicts in the Middle East an think nothing has changed.

The world always been the same.
People have been kicking seven shades out of each other since Cain & Abel.

Anyway we should get back on topic on how the Tories are just awful.

 

[Lesinge]

The world always been the same.
People have been kicking seven shades out of each other since Cain & Abel.

Anyway we should get back on topic on how the Tories are just awful.

Yep. However,when I hear Boris speak he even makes me think he is a good guy doing a good job..I have to pull myself up to remember what is going on in reality. Such a pity he is so morally bankrupt as he would make a great PM if he was also a decent guy - personality wasted on the wrong person.

 

[Brianbrewed]

Yep. However,when I hear Boris speak he even makes me think he is a good guy doing a good job..I have to pull myself up to remember what is going on in reality. Such a pity he is so morally bankrupt as he would make a great PM if he was also a decent guy - personality wasted on the wrong person.

I totally agree. He is a master at this.
He has the whiff of suphur of 'Charming Rogue.'

 

[foxy]

Who said Lesininge's business failed?

You don't go from running your own business to dropping your earnings, working for someone else and making them rich, unless something went wrong with that business.
The reason 'The winter of discontent' is in the past is because of Maggie, you have her to thank for taking the power off an unelected body of missfits who would love to see a socialist country. The only ones it would work for are the ones in power. All the sheep would remain that, just sheep following union leaders.

Firstly whose business failed? I made a decision to be more available for my children when they were born and having stability suited me - a decison made easier because I was given the chance to get educated and so get on - unlike in the US where if you get ill you will be broke for the rest of your life paying back the costs.

Who cares about Blairs kids? - its not a tit for tat discussion - I was pointing out that the biggest moaners about people being given much needed benefits were the ones who had all the benfits of rich parents throughout their lives -like Trump did (self made man my behind). If Blair comes out and says that benefits should be cut then I would include him in that - but he doesnt so I won't.

Obviously your business. Running a business doesn't stop or interfere with ones family life, if that was the case where would all the businesses be if everyone took the same view as you. Close them down because of family, give me a break.
Obviously Blair cares about his kids, just pointing out how privileged he is, whith his Dad making a nice little nest egg from the labour voters.

 

[Oneflewover]

I think that some people are solely interested in what benefits them directly and others the part that they can play in benefitting the many. I doubt each will have much luck in persuading the other to see their point of view

 

[ChrisR73]

You are more than likely working for a capitalist. Where does the money come from to fund business? Socialism has been tried and failed badly. If you want to get ahead, stop working for the capitalists and become one yourself. It's the only way

Actually I do work for myself - and getting ahead is only good for some of us. To live in a more productive society with better services, education (which means better staff) and a better society we all need to prosper.
If you think that socialism is just the opposite of capitalism then you're clearly not paying attention.
Just take a look at how the Scandinavian countries function, they have good, solid economies, better free education, lower crime, and of course happier healthier communities - much more so than the UK and America for example. America shows us all exactly what is wrong with capitalism.
But what we truly need to improve our country is a total change of mindset - the 100 rich list should be replaced by the 100 top taxpayers for example. If only contribution to government coffers was seen as a badge of honour instead of paying accountants to avoid it.
But my of course Tory governments would rather spend billions reforming welfare payments to keep the poorest people at the bottom than they would changing the tax system so the multi-millionaires and big corporations pay their fare sharer.

 

[Lesinge]

You don't go from running your own business to dropping your earnings, working for someone else and making them rich, unless something went wrong with that business.
The reason 'The winter of discontent' is in the past is because of Maggie, you have her to thank for taking the power off an unelected body of missfits who would love to see a socialist country. The only ones it would work for are the ones in power. All the sheep would remain that, just sheep following union leaders.


Obviously your business. Running a business doesn't stop or interfere with ones family life, if that was the case where would all the businesses be if everyone took the same view as you. Close them down because of family, give me a break.
Obviously Blair cares about his kids, just pointing out how privileged he is, whith his Dad making a nice little nest egg from the labour voters.

"You don't go from running your own business to dropping your earnings, working for someone else and making them rich, unless something went wrong with that business." The business was fine I had just won another contract when my wife told me she was pregnant and as she was a high flier in her work and I love being a father, I decided that I would be the one who looked after them, took them to nursery and picked them up and all the wonderful things that you get from being a parent. I guess you aren't one? I can work long hours, come home after the kids were in bed and leave before they were up but I do not live for work, I work to be able to enjoy my family. Different perspectives.

"Running a business doesn't stop or interfere with ones family life," You have no idea what my business was so are you playing guess along with me? Not that it is your concern but to give you an insight, my business had me on the road most days, staying in Hotels and criss crossing the country - you can't be there and at home at the same time.

 

[johnny108]

Wealth is less likely to be created, if the creators know they won’t get to keep the majority of the proceeds from their work.

 

[Lesinge]

Wealth is less likely to be created, if the creators know they won’t get to keep the majority of the proceeds from their work.

That is why it should be a balance between tax and allowances etc. there is a sweet spot where tax income is higher - in Russian when Putin took over he lowered the taxes but made sure that people paid them, including the oligarchs. In this country people are taxed if they are on PAYE whilst the super rich can avoid paying taxes by off shore set-ups.

 

[johnny108]

 

[johncrobinson]

This video is a classic example of how statistics can be manipulated in order to promote an agenda.

A better question would of been:>What percentage of their wealth do the super rich pay in taxes as compared to the average citizen.

Thats why tax havens exist.!!